Speed awareness shenanigans
Discussion
Hackney said:
Vipers said:
If you think people's basic knoweldge of the HC is poor (as I do), just ask some colleagues at work or mates to explain a box junction.
The majority say "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear.", that is their concept of using a box junctions, which explains why where I live 9 times out of 10 only see one car on the box waiting to turn right, the others wait at, usually just before the yellow diagonal but far enough forward to block the crossing, and when the lights change we have people walking around these pillocks.
Highway Code rule 174 states:-
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see â??Road markingsâ??). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
I only quoted rule 174 and the bold because I found the first three Web sites on how to pass your test does NOT mention the bit it in bold
But the majority get it right then. MThe majority say "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear.", that is their concept of using a box junctions, which explains why where I live 9 times out of 10 only see one car on the box waiting to turn right, the others wait at, usually just before the yellow diagonal but far enough forward to block the crossing, and when the lights change we have people walking around these pillocks.
Highway Code rule 174 states:-
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see â??Road markingsâ??). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
I only quoted rule 174 and the bold because I found the first three Web sites on how to pass your test does NOT mention the bit it in bold
"Unless the exit is clear" covers the queueing to turn right.
Whether
So I do not understand your comment, hence my comment 9 out of 10 do not enter the box to turn right if there is one already on there waiting to turn right, they are wrong, do what the HC says, YOU CAN ENTER THE BOX BEHIND another vehicle waiting to turn right etc etc etc.
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 18th November 15:34
speedking31 said:
Jon1967x said:
he maintained there was no minimum distance
You mean maximum spacing.Highway Code said:
The 30 mph limit usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting unless signs show otherwise.
(My italics) Which is a bit ambiguous.Wikipedia offers 200 yards as a maximum spacing for a system of street lighting, Wikipedia link, with links to the relevant legislation.
Edited by speedking31 on Tuesday 18th November 13:27
Vipers said:
Hackney said:
Vipers said:
If you think people's basic knoweldge of the HC is poor (as I do), just ask some colleagues at work or mates to explain a box junction.
The majority say "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear.", that is their concept of using a box junctions, which explains why where I live 9 times out of 10 only see one car on the box waiting to turn right, the others wait at, usually just before the yellow diagonal but far enough forward to block the crossing, and when the lights change we have people walking around these pillocks.
Highway Code rule 174 states:-
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see â??Road markingsâ??). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
I only quoted rule 174 and the bold because I found the first three Web sites on how to pass your test does NOT mention the bit it in bold
But the majority get it right then. MThe majority say "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear.", that is their concept of using a box junctions, which explains why where I live 9 times out of 10 only see one car on the box waiting to turn right, the others wait at, usually just before the yellow diagonal but far enough forward to block the crossing, and when the lights change we have people walking around these pillocks.
Highway Code rule 174 states:-
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see â??Road markingsâ??). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
I only quoted rule 174 and the bold because I found the first three Web sites on how to pass your test does NOT mention the bit it in bold
"Unless the exit is clear" covers the queueing to turn right.
Whether
So I do not understand your comment, hence my comment 9 out of 10 do not enter the box to turn right if there is one already on there waiting to turn right, they are wrong, do what the HC says, YOU CAN ENTER THE BOX BEHIND another vehicle waiting to turn right etc etc etc.
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 18th November 15:34
That's the key phrase. Multiple cars queueing to turn right is OK, *if* the exit is clear.
Many people may not get that and therefore don't enter the box.
But answering the original question with "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear." is not wrong (with the "unless directed by a policeman" caveat)
Hackney said:
No,there's no limit to the number who can enter the box "if the exit is clear"
That's the key phrase. Multiple cars queueing to turn right is OK, *if* the exit is clear.
Many people may not get that and therefore don't enter the box.
But answering the original question with "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear." is not wrong (with the "unless directed by a policeman" caveat)
The bit about the policeman etc, I am only quoting the HC, which didn't mention that part.That's the key phrase. Multiple cars queueing to turn right is OK, *if* the exit is clear.
Many people may not get that and therefore don't enter the box.
But answering the original question with "You can't enter The box unless your exit is clear." is not wrong (with the "unless directed by a policeman" caveat)
Most I have asked had absolutely idea they could enter the box behind another car if both were turning tight.
What has always bothered me is what happens in this situation.
Lights turn green, the exit to your right is clear, so you enter the box, and wait.
Oncoming traffic has L1 for turning left, L2 is for driving straight over.
So your waiting, oncoming traffic in L1 turns to their left, the traffic there backs up and comes to a halt.
Lights change, you are now stuck in the box, your exit is blocked, let's hope there are no cams around.
A colleague of Mine (an intelligent chap) recently went on a Speed Awareness Course. He hadn't realised that he had been speeding at the time and told me that he had learned a lot from the course.
Some of the things he had learned (after only 45 years of driving...) did alarm me a little, but in fairness he did admit these things and took them on board.
When you are knowledgable about a subject it often comes as a shock when other people are not.
If I were to, theoretically, engage in some "civil disobedience" on the roads, I would like to think that I was aware of doing it.
Some of the things he had learned (after only 45 years of driving...) did alarm me a little, but in fairness he did admit these things and took them on board.
When you are knowledgable about a subject it often comes as a shock when other people are not.
If I were to, theoretically, engage in some "civil disobedience" on the roads, I would like to think that I was aware of doing it.
Nigel Worc's said:
miniman said:
Typically as I am currently driving the slowest car I've ever owned, I picked up a nice ticket for 34 in a 30 heading into Cardiff, and was offered the speed awareness course. Obviously I was sceptical as to the value of this, but thought I'd give it a go. The ex-traffic plod chap giving the course was great actually; nice guy, honest, realistic. The scary bit was how little some of the other "delegates" knew about the rules, cars, physics and so forth.
You know, as strange as this may seem, and I have ridden since 1977, I didn't know what a smidsy was until I found internet forums.- Many people had no idea what the correlation between lampposts and speed limits was
- Many had no idea what constitutes a dual carriageway
- One mid-20s girl wearing a mix of Barbour, Joules and Hackett was blatantly fetching horses around with a Range Rover with no idea that she wasn't supposed to
- Question: "would you recommend switching off traction control? Would that be safer?"
- Half the room had no idea that there were different length and spaced road markings
- No-one had heard of "SMIDSY"
- No-one had heard of the two-second rule
- No-one had a clue that you have to drive slower when towing
- Half the room couldn't draw a Give Way sign
- Several couldn't identify a NSL sign
I also didn't know about different length center hazard warning lines until I did my advanced.
I think I knew the two second rule, pre advanced, I seem to remember tv adverts, give way and nsl signs I knew, driving slower than car speed limits when towing with a car I also knew.
There you go, you must realise that driving is about getting from a to b for a lot of people.
MC Bodge said:
When you are knowledgable about a subject it often comes as a shock when other people are not.
When you are knowledgable about a subject it comes as an even bigger shock when you find out you're not as knowledgeable as you thought. (Thats not a comment directed at you - I'm just using your post).For all the pedantry from the one guy taking the course, the thing that I remember most was the stopping distance bit - not that it gets longer the faster you go, but the speed you are still carrying at different points on the road. Roughly speaking a car doing 70 is still travelling at 50 at the point on the road where a car doing 50 would have stopped.
andygo said:
I always thought the 2 second rule was this:
When pressing on a bit (preferably doing a ton on a night rally), you pick out a corner rapidly approaching. Rather than just brake like a wimp, wait for 2 seconds and THEN brake. You'll nearly always get round the corner...
I said it once to an advanced driving instructor, he was totally confused, more so when I insisted it did actually work.
That sounds like a good rule!When pressing on a bit (preferably doing a ton on a night rally), you pick out a corner rapidly approaching. Rather than just brake like a wimp, wait for 2 seconds and THEN brake. You'll nearly always get round the corner...
I said it once to an advanced driving instructor, he was totally confused, more so when I insisted it did actually work.
alock said:
I took my test many years ago before the theory test. Back then the examiner just asked you 3 questions at the end of the test. One of my questions was "Apart from when turning right, when is it OK to stop in a box junction?"
The answer he was expecting which I didn't get (although I still passed)...
When directed to do so by a uniformed police officer directing traffic.
Even today I think it was an unfair question but I wonder if he thought I was a bit too confident and just wanted to show me that I didn't know everything.
That's what I would call a smart arse. If that's not in the HC how are you supposed to know the answer. I do think that was mentioned that to with crossing a solid white line, but couldn't find that in the current version.The answer he was expecting which I didn't get (although I still passed)...
When directed to do so by a uniformed police officer directing traffic.
Even today I think it was an unfair question but I wonder if he thought I was a bit too confident and just wanted to show me that I didn't know everything.
Vipers said:
The bit about the policeman etc, I am only quoting the HC, which didn't mention that part.
Most I have asked had absolutely idea they could enter the box behind another car if both were turning tight.
What has always bothered me is what happens in this situation.
Lights turn green, the exit to your right is clear, so you enter the box, and wait.
Oncoming traffic has L1 for turning left, L2 is for driving straight over.
So your waiting, oncoming traffic in L1 turns to their left, the traffic there backs up and comes to a halt.
Lights change, you are now stuck in the box, your exit is blocked, let's hope there are no cams around.
I know exactly the scenario you mean, used to get it a lot heading North over Battersea Bridge and turning right. Never got a FPN so can't tell you if the defence / truth, "when I entered the box it the exit was clear" would be accepted.Most I have asked had absolutely idea they could enter the box behind another car if both were turning tight.
What has always bothered me is what happens in this situation.
Lights turn green, the exit to your right is clear, so you enter the box, and wait.
Oncoming traffic has L1 for turning left, L2 is for driving straight over.
So your waiting, oncoming traffic in L1 turns to their left, the traffic there backs up and comes to a halt.
Lights change, you are now stuck in the box, your exit is blocked, let's hope there are no cams around.
Hackney said:
Vipers said:
The bit about the policeman etc, I am only quoting the HC, which didn't mention that part.
Most I have asked had absolutely idea they could enter the box behind another car if both were turning tight.
What has always bothered me is what happens in this situation.
Lights turn green, the exit to your right is clear, so you enter the box, and wait.
Oncoming traffic has L1 for turning left, L2 is for driving straight over.
So your waiting, oncoming traffic in L1 turns to their left, the traffic there backs up and comes to a halt.
Lights change, you are now stuck in the box, your exit is blocked, let's hope there are no cams around.
I know exactly the scenario you mean, used to get it a lot heading North over Battersea Bridge and turning right. Never got a FPN so can't tell you if the defence / truth, "when I entered the box it the exit was clear" would be accepted.Most I have asked had absolutely idea they could enter the box behind another car if both were turning tight.
What has always bothered me is what happens in this situation.
Lights turn green, the exit to your right is clear, so you enter the box, and wait.
Oncoming traffic has L1 for turning left, L2 is for driving straight over.
So your waiting, oncoming traffic in L1 turns to their left, the traffic there backs up and comes to a halt.
Lights change, you are now stuck in the box, your exit is blocked, let's hope there are no cams around.
Dr Jekyll said:
This is something I've wondered about. Is the offence 'entering when the exit isn't clear' or 'blocking the junction because you entered when it wasn't clear'?
But you enter because the exit is clear in the first place, so you were entitled to do so.Hope it never happens to me.
Vipers said:
But you enter because the exit is clear in the first place, so you were entitled to do so.
Hope it never happens to me.
It's happened to me once or twice that I've entered the box junction because there's a one-car space ahead, only to have someone else cut in front from an adjacent lane and take up the space which should have been mine, and leaving me stranded on the boxHope it never happens to me.
Phatboy317 said:
It's happened to me once or twice that I've entered the box junction because there's a one-car space ahead, only to have someone else cut in front from an adjacent lane and take up the space which should have been mine, and leaving me stranded on the box
Happens to me all the time on Keep Clears as well - the one on Bassett Avenue in Southampton being a prime culprit.HereBeMonsters said:
Phatboy317 said:
It's happened to me once or twice that I've entered the box junction because there's a one-car space ahead, only to have someone else cut in front from an adjacent lane and take up the space which should have been mine, and leaving me stranded on the box
Happens to me all the time on Keep Clears as well - the one on Bassett Avenue in Southampton being a prime culprit.Barstewards anyway those who nIp in like that.
miniman said:
As a mechanism to nab bad drivers and educate them a bit, it was actually ok. Shame that the basic level of driver education is so low to start with though.
Does catching people who have exceeded a set limit "nab bad drivers"? I would call bad drivers those who crash more than average. In which case, that would be the under 25s and the elderly, however, these two groups have the fewest points for exceeding speed limits. Depends what one means by bad drivers though I suppose.Edited by Guybrush on Friday 21st November 15:30
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