Scottish Drink Drving Chages
Discussion
handpaper said:
I would have thought some data was collected - isn't it SOP to test all parties involved in an injury accident?
Yes but a pass is a pass with no data retained of the levels of those who pass. The light turns Green or Amber on the roadside machine and that is that.Edited by rewc on Wednesday 19th November 17:54
The one absolutely certain thing is, come December 5th, there will be lots of random breath tests being carried out in Scotland. I expect police road blocks on major routes out of cities in the evenings with cars being pulled four to six at a time to check for drivers over the new limit. The police have already said they expect an additional 35 drivers per week to fail the new limits. Got to justify the new law somehow.
The one absolutely certain thing is, come December 5th, there will be lots of random breath tests being carried out in Scotland. I expect police road blocks on major routes out of cities in the evenings with cars being pulled four to six at a time to check for drivers over the new limit. The police have already said they expect an additional 35 drivers per week to fail the new limits. Got to justify the new law somehow.
H.7 said:
The one absolutely certain thing is, come December 5th, there will be lots of random breath tests being carried out in Scotland. I expect police road blocks on major routes out of cities in the evenings with cars being pulled four to six at a time to check for drivers over the new limit. The police have already said they expect an additional 35 drivers per week to fail the new limits. Got to justify the new law somehow.
That indeed will be the public justification, and it will be used to distract from the fact no lives will be saved and no injuries prevented; if the new law doesn't do either of these things, what's it for other than braindead illiberalism? A year down the road when the stats come in there's zero chance of it being repealed.H.7 said:
The one absolutely certain thing is, come December 5th, there will be lots of random breath tests being carried out in Scotland. I expect police road blocks on major routes out of cities in the evenings with cars being pulled four to six at a time to check for drivers over the new limit. The police have already said they expect an additional 35 drivers per week to fail the new limits. Got to justify the new law somehow.
Far more likely, with it being Christmas party season, that there'll be police road blocks on major routes into major cities in the mornings. I emailed my MSP over four weeks ago asking how she would be voting on this matter and about the penalty, I mentioned that while I was not against the limit being in line with most of Europe, would the penalty be in line with rest of Europe.
She has not replied !
I doubt she will be getting a vote from me come the next election.
She has not replied !
I doubt she will be getting a vote from me come the next election.
agtlaw said:
One thing leapt out from that report.Nowhere does it specify what the breath test limit will be, merely saying 'equivalent' whatever that means.
The purpose of the instrument is to provide for the drink-drive limit in Scotland to be lowered from 80 milligrams (mg) of alcohol in 100 millilitres (ml) of blood to 50mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood, and for equivalent changes to be made to the limits for the concentration of alcohol in breath and urine.
I also wonder when Home Office type approval was given for evidential breath test meters to be used at whatever the 'equivalent' level may be.
For this who are interested in the actual evidence given by Chief Superintendent Iain Murray of Police Scotland; Dr Peter Rice, chair of Scottish Health Action on Alcohol Problems; and Margaret Dekker, research secretary of Scotland’s Campaign against Irresponsible Drivers have look here.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybus...
Dekker is hilarious. Apparently, if you live in a rural area with no bus service at pub closing time and one local taxi firm if you're lucky, she seriously thinks it's OK to ride home tipsy on a bike.
The draft Regulations were approved by the Committee the following week.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybus...
What amazes me most of all is the time frame. Just one month (4th November to 5th December). As for publicity, except perhaps for those living on the border, how many people on here in E&W knew about this change and when it will happen?
The RoI and most of Europe already has a lower limit. The proposed reduction doesn't surprise me. Those who know their history will be aware that Scotland's leaning towards Europe goes back hundreds of years.
Mr Taxpayer said:
So 51mg in Gretna means a UK 12 month ban, while 51mg, a few miles south in Carlisle means "Try and stay off the booze, but be on your way, sir" in Carlisle.
Having a different cross border limit makes no sense at all in the UK. It's just a matter of time before the lower threshold is introduced in E&W.I never drink alcohol when out socialising and driving afterwards, nor in any case in sufficient quantity to worry about the 'morning after' effect. So any reduction isn't going to affect me directly. Otoh if it means fewer people will be tempted to take the risk of having 'just one more' that can only be a good thing imo.
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
The equivalents are very easy to calculate.
80ug/100ml blood is 35ug/100ml breath
50ug/100ml blood is approximately* 22ug/100ml breath
80ug/100ml blood is 35ug/100ml breath
50ug/100ml blood is approximately* 22ug/100ml breath
- 21.875 to be exact.
Nigel Worc's said:
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
Clue: Scotland isn't a Foreign country.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441
TooMany2cvs said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
Clue: Scotland isn't a Foreign country.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441
Would it be acceptable for Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, & Shropshire to have different drink drive limits ?
No, I thought not, so by the same token it isn't acceptable for Scotland either.
Nigel Worc's said:
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
There are many aspects of Scottish Law which differ from English Law. It has been the case for hundreds of years. For example, the laws on property sales/purchases are very different. Another example is the age of consent for marriage without parental approval, which is 16 in Scotland & 18 in England.I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
Cooperman said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
There are many aspects of Scottish Law which differ from English Law. It has been the case for hundreds of years. For example, the laws on property sales/purchases are very different. Another example is the age of consent for marriage without parental approval, which is 16 in Scotland & 18 in England.I could understand it if I was banned in Scotland but not England.
I could also understand it if the limit was lowered across the whole of the UK (I wouldn't support it, but at least it'd make sense).
Is what is proposed actually legal ?
My licence has nothing to do with Scotland, if they wish to have different rules from the rest of us, just let THEM get on with it, it shouldn't affect us.
If it is a Scottish court & a Scottish law, then they can fook off and leave my British licence alone.
Do you not see my confusion ?
Nigel Worc's said:
I'm finding it odd that I and others (not really me to be honest, I don't drink & drive as I can't take it), could have my British licence removed, by a British court, when I haven't broken a British law.
If it is a Scottish court & a Scottish law, then they can fook off and leave my British licence alone.
Do you not see my confusion ?
Welcome to a practical demonstration of Tam Dalyell's West Lothian Question. If it is a Scottish court & a Scottish law, then they can fook off and leave my British licence alone.
Do you not see my confusion ?
Nigel Worc's said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Am I alone in finding it rather odd that I may be banned from driving in a foreign court (Scotland), and banned from driving in my home Country (England), where what I was charged with isn't illegal ?
Clue: Scotland isn't a Foreign country.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29270441
Would it be acceptable for Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, & Shropshire to have different drink drive limits ?
No, I thought not, so by the same token it isn't acceptable for Scotland either.
It's always been the case that laws can vary geographically; this is just another example. If you were to be arrested by the Transport Police you can't tell them to 'fook off' because you don't live in a train station!
Nigel Worc's said:
I'm finding it odd that I and others (not really me to be honest, I don't drink & drive as I can't take it), could have my British licence removed, by a British court, when I haven't broken a British law.
If it is a Scottish court & a Scottish law, then they can fook off and leave my British licence alone.
Do you not see my confusion ?
Your use of the word "British" is the cause of most of your confusion. It's a UK licence and there is no "British" law. If it is a Scottish court & a Scottish law, then they can fook off and leave my British licence alone.
Do you not see my confusion ?
Many contracts/service agreements are clearly marked as being governed by English law - as a scot living in Scotland this irks me but I don't just tell them to fook off. What I do is accept that I am dealing with an english based company and that it is their choice to only deal with disputes by way of English law. Likewise if someone breaks the law whilst in Scotland they will be dealt with by the scottish legal system.
Read up on the history of our islands and be amazed at what you'll learn about why the UK is the way it is today.
Nigel Worc's said:
Then how can it have different laws ?
Because some law making powers are devolved to the regional government.Nigel Worc's said:
Would it be acceptable for Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, & Shropshire to have different drink drive limits ?
They don't have devolved powers.Nigel Worc's said:
I'm finding it odd that I and others (not really me to be honest, I don't drink & drive as I can't take it), could have my British licence removed, by a British court, when I haven't broken a British law.
Scotland is part of Britain.Nigel Worc's said:
Do you not see my confusion ?
Your head would explode if you considered the US, y'know.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff