Scottish Drink Drving Chages
Discussion
otolith said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Where are the speed limits different ?
As far as I know we only have one area it could differ, the nsl, all others are posted.
So, where does the nsl differ ?
Next year, it will differ for lorries, when the limit in England and Wales changes.As far as I know we only have one area it could differ, the nsl, all others are posted.
So, where does the nsl differ ?
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/raise-lorry...
Is this going to become a pattern ?
At least we are putting the limit up not down.
If they want separate driving rules, then they should only have jurisdiction over the roads they control, simple as that.
Nigel Worc's said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I, like many others, don't like the favouritism shown to Scotland, and it's mps, and now its new drink drive limits.
How is Scotland adopting a lower limit favouritism to Scotland? It's the exact opposite. Scots could argue that the failure of England and Wales to adopt their lower limit is favouritism to us!They are saying they will ban us from driving in our country, if we exceed the drink drive limit in theirs.
In what way do we do that to them ?
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Monday 8th December 13:34
We would ban them from driving in their country, if they exceeded the drink driving limit in ours.
They do only have jurisdiction over the roads they control - but the UK doesn't discriminate between penalties for breaking Scottish laws in Scotland and penalties for breaking English laws in England. I don't really see why it should, I don't want to see Scots breaking English laws with impunity nor vice versa. If you don't like the way the Scottish people run Scotland, just don't go there.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I, like many others, don't like the favouritism shown to Scotland, and it's mps, and now its new drink drive limits.
How is Scotland adopting a lower limit favouritism to Scotland? It's the exact opposite. Scots could argue that the failure of England and Wales to adopt their lower limit is favouritism to us!They are saying they will ban us from driving in our country, if we exceed the drink drive limit in theirs.
In what way do we do that to them ?
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Monday 8th December 13:34
We would ban them from driving in their country, if they exceeded the drink driving limit in ours.
They, it would seem, will attempt to ban us from driving in our country if we exceed their lower limit.
I would have no issue if you were only banned from driving on Scotlands roads, providing you are still below the majority UK limit.
Nigel Worc's said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I, like many others, don't like the favouritism shown to Scotland, and it's mps, and now its new drink drive limits.
How is Scotland adopting a lower limit favouritism to Scotland? It's the exact opposite. Scots could argue that the failure of England and Wales to adopt their lower limit is favouritism to us!They are saying they will ban us from driving in our country, if we exceed the drink drive limit in theirs.
In what way do we do that to them ?
Edited by Nigel Worc's on Monday 8th December 13:34
We would ban them from driving in their country, if they exceeded the drink driving limit in ours.
Suppose a Scot, whilst in England, got a prescription and ran out of the chemist without paying, deliberately. They were caught and punished, a fine, community service or whatever.
When they returned to Scotland, would you expect that sentence to be invalidated, because prescriptions are free in Scotland?
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Monday 8th December 15:02
TwigtheWonderkid said:
And I would also point out, an English person visiting Scotland, Wales of N.I., and having cause to visit the doctor, would not pay for a prescription.
To say "not quite that simple" is an understatement...I live in England, half a mile from the Welsh border.
My doctor's surgery is in England, but if it was in Wales, I'd still not be eligible for free prescriptions, because I live in England.
Some friends in the village live JUST in Wales - the border is right outside their house. They're registered with the English surgery, but nurses couldn't make home visits to their elderly parents. Instead, those visits had to be organised from another surgery, three times as far away, and with which none of them are registered...
My dentist's surgery is in Wales. I am not eligible to go on his books as an NHS patient, although I could've if I lived in Wales, because Welsh NHS dental fees are cheaper than English ones. I can, however, go on as a private patient on a capped-payment scheme which works out to be exactly the same price as English NHS. Don't ask. I don't know. But...
TooMany2cvs said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
And I would also point out, an English person visiting Scotland, Wales of N.I., and having cause to visit the doctor, would not pay for a prescription.
To say "not quite that simple" is an understatement...Nigel Worc's said:
Don't play silly buggars, we won't ban them for exceeding the limit in their country whilst in ours.
They, it would seem, will attempt to ban us from driving in our country if we exceed their lower limit.
I would have no issue if you were only banned from driving on Scotlands roads, providing you are still below the majority UK limit.
The UK is one country.They, it would seem, will attempt to ban us from driving in our country if we exceed their lower limit.
I would have no issue if you were only banned from driving on Scotlands roads, providing you are still below the majority UK limit.
The law on drink driving is the same: You cannot drive over the prescribed limit. It's just that the prescribed limit is different in Scotland in exactly the same way that the speed limit is different in different parts of the UK.
I feel like I'm shouting into an echo chamber
rs1952 said:
To make it easier for you to understand this concept I'll copy and paste a table I added to another thread only yesterday:
% proof Alcohol Units per pint
3.5-------19.88-----1.988
3.6-------20.448----2.0448
3.7-------21.016----2.1016
3.8-------21.584----2.1584
3.9-------22.152----2.2152
4.0-------22.72-----2.272
4.1-------23.288----2.3288
4.2-------23.856----2.3856
4.3-------24.424----2.4424
4.4-------24.992----2.4992
4.5-------25.56-----2.556
4.6-------26.128----2.6128
4.7-------26.696----2.6696
4.8-------27.264----2.7264
4.9-------27.832----2.7832
In very broad terms, the limit in the whole of the UK since the legislation was introduced in 1967 was 5 units, and this has now changed in Scotland to approximately 3 units. Even in Scotland under the new legislation it would still be possible to have a pint and a half of "boy's beer" and blow green.
Obviously and argument based on weak northern beer.% proof Alcohol Units per pint
3.5-------19.88-----1.988
3.6-------20.448----2.0448
3.7-------21.016----2.1016
3.8-------21.584----2.1584
3.9-------22.152----2.2152
4.0-------22.72-----2.272
4.1-------23.288----2.3288
4.2-------23.856----2.3856
4.3-------24.424----2.4424
4.4-------24.992----2.4992
4.5-------25.56-----2.556
4.6-------26.128----2.6128
4.7-------26.696----2.6696
4.8-------27.264----2.7264
4.9-------27.832----2.7832
In very broad terms, the limit in the whole of the UK since the legislation was introduced in 1967 was 5 units, and this has now changed in Scotland to approximately 3 units. Even in Scotland under the new legislation it would still be possible to have a pint and a half of "boy's beer" and blow green.
All of which looks a bit different 'if' it was ever transferred to Southern drinking habits where if it isn't Fullers ESB or Youngs Special amongst similar then it isn't considered as beer but ditch water.
In addition to which the issue is more about the 'principle' of a federal licence penalty regime in an environment of local non federal laws.Which obviously 'also' 'would/could' have had implications regarding the lemming like acceptance,of the UK's position regards same,concerning 'offences' committed within the EU.'If' the Germans hadn't already seen through the plan and havingly seemingly stopped the idea in its tracks,at least in that regard.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 8th December 17:00
alock said:
Live 5 miles north of Winchester. Work North-East Basingstoke.
20 miles by road. Takes 25-30 minutes in the car.
First bus leaves our village at about 8:05am which means I cannot get an early enough train to then get to Basingstoke to then get another bus across Basingstoke by 9:00am. Total public transport journey is over an hour. The problem is the start time. If we had a bus that left our village at about 7:00am then lots of people in our village could use public transport. As it is, only people who work in Winchester have it as an option. If you work in another town then you must drive unless your employer allows you to start at 9:30am.
Public transport is a joke for large parts of the country.
I grew up in Winchester - public transport is indeed rubbish around there. 20 miles by road. Takes 25-30 minutes in the car.
First bus leaves our village at about 8:05am which means I cannot get an early enough train to then get to Basingstoke to then get another bus across Basingstoke by 9:00am. Total public transport journey is over an hour. The problem is the start time. If we had a bus that left our village at about 7:00am then lots of people in our village could use public transport. As it is, only people who work in Winchester have it as an option. If you work in another town then you must drive unless your employer allows you to start at 9:30am.
Public transport is a joke for large parts of the country.
It's nice cycling around there though- 20 miles would be around an hour of (likely) quite nice lanes.
Dammit said:
I grew up in Winchester - public transport is indeed rubbish around there.
It's nice cycling around there though- 20 miles would be around an hour of (likely) quite nice lanes.
The issue in that case being the 'continuing' freedom of choice to enjoy at least a pint of 'decent' beer and drive to/from the pub to do so.It's nice cycling around there though- 20 miles would be around an hour of (likely) quite nice lanes.
In addition to the implicit acceptance of a federal licence penalty system in an environment of local laws and local conditions as in that example of exceeding the ridiculous French autoroute linmit resulting in points on or loss of a German ( or UK ) licence.At least without/unless those 'issues' being questioned and opposed.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
See my original analogy. My local council impose a 20mph limit outside the school. They don't have the authority to inflict that limit on the nearby motorway. So they don't. But any ban I get for exceeding the 20 limit will still apply on the motorway, even though I might not have been exceeding 70 when I was banned for exceeding 20.
That's not a good analogy, because you're comparing two completely different sets of conditions.A much more appropriate analogy would be the local authority imposing the 20 limit on the motorway.
That way, the road's the same, the driving conditions are the same, the danger/safety levels are the same - the only difference is the limit.
Edited by Phatboy317 on Monday 8th December 17:29
TooMany2cvs said:
Well, that's OK, because local authorities regularly reduce limits on dual carriageways or even single carriageways that would otherwise be NSL.
If the road conditions are the same then they have no good reason to - except that they can.If you have a pint and a half in you then you're no more dangerous on a Scottish road than on an English road - the only difference is the limit.
TooMany2cvs said:
Phatboy317 said:
A much more appropriate analogy would be the local authority imposing the 20 limit on the motorway.
Well, that's OK, because local authorities regularly reduce limits on dual carriageways or even single carriageways that would otherwise be NSL.XJ Flyer said:
The issue in that case being the 'continuing' freedom of choice to enjoy at least a pint of 'decent' beer and drive to/from the pub to do so.
In addition to the implicit acceptance of a federal licence penalty system in an environment of local laws and local conditions as in that example of exceeding the ridiculous French autoroute linmit resulting in points on or loss of a German ( or UK ) licence.At least without/unless those 'issues' being questioned and opposed.
You are aware that the limit in France is 130 km/h, which is 11 mph faster than the UK limit?In addition to the implicit acceptance of a federal licence penalty system in an environment of local laws and local conditions as in that example of exceeding the ridiculous French autoroute linmit resulting in points on or loss of a German ( or UK ) licence.At least without/unless those 'issues' being questioned and opposed.
Anyway, your hatred of foreigners, apart from the Germans whom you seem to admire along with your liking for warm beer- you are Nigel Farage AICMFP.
Dammit said:
XJ Flyer said:
The issue in that case being the 'continuing' freedom of choice to enjoy at least a pint of 'decent' beer and drive to/from the pub to do so.
In addition to the implicit acceptance of a federal licence penalty system in an environment of local laws and local conditions as in that example of exceeding the ridiculous French autoroute linmit resulting in points on or loss of a German ( or UK ) licence.At least without/unless those 'issues' being questioned and opposed.
You are aware that the limit in France is 130 km/h, which is 11 mph faster than the UK limit?In addition to the implicit acceptance of a federal licence penalty system in an environment of local laws and local conditions as in that example of exceeding the ridiculous French autoroute linmit resulting in points on or loss of a German ( or UK ) licence.At least without/unless those 'issues' being questioned and opposed.
Anyway, your hatred of foreigners, apart from the Germans whom you seem to admire along with your liking for warm beer- you are Nigel Farage AICMFP.
While dislike of that situation and pointing out the obvious flaws in the idea of a federal licence penalty regime,in an environment of local ( often ridiculous ) laws,as in this case,doesn't translate as 'hatred' of myself or the 'French' or 'Scottish'.
As for warm beer I like cold beer too many of the German types just happening to be some of the best.While ironically even some of their alcohol free types being better than a too weak bitter,which the new Scottish limit would dictate,'if' it is adopted UK wide.
sim72 said:
I have a question, though. If you were stopped just inside the English border and blew 70, yet had obviously come from Scotland, could you be prosecuted? Or what if a Scottish plod followed you over the border (can they do that)?
No they can't, they can fook off back to their kingdom, just like in the dukes of hazzard.Nigel Worc's said:
So the jocks are out of step again ?
Is this going to become a pattern ?
At least we are putting the limit up not down.
If they want separate driving rules, then they should only have jurisdiction over the roads they control, simple as that.
Us Scots will have jurisdiction over the roads we control. But if you choose to drive on Scottish roads you will be subject to Scottish drink drive limits. How hard is that to grasp?Is this going to become a pattern ?
At least we are putting the limit up not down.
If they want separate driving rules, then they should only have jurisdiction over the roads they control, simple as that.
It doesn't sound if you will visit much anyway as you obviously hate the place by referring to us as Jocks and in your later post saying we can fook off back to our own kingdom. Totally uncalled for IMO on a thread that is merely about a drink drive limit. I don't really care what you think about Scotland but can you kindly keep inflammatory comments to yourself?
The new drink drive limit has been well publicised. How hard would it be if you did drive up here just not to have a pint when driving?
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