Scottish Drink Drving Chages
Discussion
ch108 said:
Nigel Worc's said:
So the jocks are out of step again ?
Is this going to become a pattern ?
At least we are putting the limit up not down.
If they want separate driving rules, then they should only have jurisdiction over the roads they control, simple as that.
Us Scots will have jurisdiction over the roads we control. But if you choose to drive on Scottish roads you will be subject to Scottish drink drive limits. How hard is that to grasp?Is this going to become a pattern ?
At least we are putting the limit up not down.
If they want separate driving rules, then they should only have jurisdiction over the roads they control, simple as that.
It doesn't sound if you will visit much anyway as you obviously hate the place by referring to us as Jocks and in your later post saying we can fook off back to our own kingdom. Totally uncalled for IMO on a thread that is merely about a drink drive limit. I don't really care what you think about Scotland but can you kindly keep inflammatory comments to yourself?
The new drink drive limit has been well publicised. How hard would it be if you did drive up here just not to have a pint when driving?
s off you touchy bd, half of my family are Scots, and I'm up there at least half a dozen times a year.You can do what you want up there, I wish you'd gone independent, what I don't like is you lot being able to ban the rest of us from our roads, just because you want a lower drink drive limit.
By all means ban us from your roads, but if you want to be different, then stick to your own side of the border.
Is that hard to understand ?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Suppose a Scot, whilst in England, got a prescription and ran out of the chemist without paying, deliberately. They were caught and punished, a fine, community service or whatever.
When they returned to Scotland, would you expect that sentence to be invalidated, because prescriptions are free in Scotland?
Nigel, can you answer the above question. A Scot, working in England for a couple of months, prosecuted for the above offence, gets 50 hrs community service. He is due to return home the day after the court hearing. Should he get to waive his punishment upon return to Scotland, because the crime he committed in England wouldn't have been a crime in Scotland?When they returned to Scotland, would you expect that sentence to be invalidated, because prescriptions are free in Scotland?
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Monday 8th December 15:02
Is say not. He committed an offence in England, and the punishment should apply in Scotland even though it wasn't an offence there. What's your view?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel, can you answer the above question. A Scot, working in England for a couple of months, prosecuted for the above offence, gets 50 hrs community service. He is due to return home the day after the court hearing. Should he get to waive his punishment upon return to Scotland, because the crime he committed in England wouldn't have been a crime in Scotland?
Is say not. He committed an offence in England, and the punishment should apply in Scotland even though it wasn't an offence there. What's your view?
Theft is illegal in Scotland the same as England.Is say not. He committed an offence in England, and the punishment should apply in Scotland even though it wasn't an offence there. What's your view?
Nigel Worc's said:
But Scotland are imposing their new law on England & Wales.
Can anyone point out another EU Country that does this ?
We won't need Westminster soon, it looks like Edinburgh will be setting our traffic laws.
No they're not.Can anyone point out another EU Country that does this ?
We won't need Westminster soon, it looks like Edinburgh will be setting our traffic laws.
This is one of those theoretical debates that i'd wager has zero impact in any real world situation.
You leave home in the UK with between 50 and 80 mpg of alcohol in your blood and drive over the border where you're arrested for DD.
Anyone setting out for a long drive with any amount of alcohol in their system is a bloody fool IMHO. Unless you live next to the border and regularly drive back and forth over it after having a drink this really is going to be a non issue.
Also, you made a comment about Scotland being out of step. Out of step with who? The bloke from the IAM on the BBC the other morning seemed to think that England was out of step with everyone else in having a limit as high as 80 mg.
sim72 said:
I have a question, though. If you were stopped just inside the English border and blew 70, yet had obviously come from Scotland, could you be prosecuted? Or what if a Scottish plod followed you over the border (can they do that)?
Very interesting question. AIUI it is currently possible for the (Scottish) Polis to cross the border (to some degree) in pursuit of an offence committed within Scotland. If this is the case and you blow over the Scottish limit and they can prove you were driving within Scotland I guess you would be bang to rights?Even less sure whether an English force could breathalyse you in their area, in liaison or not with the (Scottish) Polis where it could be proved you were driving in that condition while north of the border.
Corpulent Tosser said:
Poor analogy, it is not about the prescription, it is about theft.
Lets be clear, drink driving is legal in both countries, it is the level of alcohol allowed that differs.
Exactly, so if it's about the theft, not the prescription, surely drink drive is about the act of breaking the limit, not the limit itself.Lets be clear, drink driving is legal in both countries, it is the level of alcohol allowed that differs.
Corpulent Tosser said:
Poor analogy, it is not about the prescription, it is about theft.
...in a situation that, the other side of the regional border, would not be illegal.Corpulent Tosser said:
Lets be clear, drink driving is legal in both countries, it is the level of alcohol allowed that differs.
"Drink-driving" is usually taken to refer to RTA88 s5 offences of driving with alcohol above the prescribed limit, so is illegal in both regions of the country.So this whole argument is about a situation that, the other side of the regional border, would not be illegal.
Corpulent Tosser said:
Scotland is now out of step with everyone
Different limit to England
Different penalties to the EU
So?Different limit to England
Different penalties to the EU
Scotland isn't out of step with ALL of the EU, because Scotland is - through it's UK membership - part of the EU. And other parts of the EU have a zero limit. Yet other parts have possible imprisonment of up to six months for 20mg and guaranteed imprisonment of up to 12 months for 100mg.
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Tuesday 9th December 13:18
Devil2575 said:
This whole thread reads very much like looking for something to get worked up about.
Agreed.When this was announced, I never gave it a second though. Scotland can set whatever limit they choose to under their devolved powers, and of course a ban would be UK wide for breaking their limit. It never occurred to me it would or should be any other way, and I don't know why anyone would give a hoot.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Suppose a Scot, whilst in England, got a prescription and ran out of the chemist without paying, deliberately. They were caught and punished, a fine, community service or whatever.
When they returned to Scotland, would you expect that sentence to be invalidated, because prescriptions are free in Scotland?
Nigel, can you answer the above question. A Scot, working in England for a couple of months, prosecuted for the above offence, gets 50 hrs community service. He is due to return home the day after the court hearing. Should he get to waive his punishment upon return to Scotland, because the crime he committed in England wouldn't have been a crime in Scotland?When they returned to Scotland, would you expect that sentence to be invalidated, because prescriptions are free in Scotland?
Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Monday 8th December 15:02
Is say not. He committed an offence in England, and the punishment should apply in Scotland even though it wasn't an offence there. What's your view?
It probably won't interest you, but I was made to pay for some needles in Scotland, when I ran low, despite these being issued free to me in England.
I guess that may also apply if I ever need any whilst in Wales too.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I wasn't aware there were different levels of theft between England & Scotland.
I wasn't aware there were different levels of exceeding the drink drive limit in England & Scotland. You either exceed the prevailing limit, or you don't.You can now be over the limit in Scotland and be banned from driving here, when you'd be perfectly legal here, so shouldn't be banned here (in my opinion).
That is the crux of my arguement, Scotland should not have the power to ban anyone from driving in England & Wales, where the driver was at a level to be legal in England & Wales.
If any of us were to be banned in France for driving with say a level of 60, we wouldn't be banned from driving here, just in France, and that should be the same with Scotland.
What the situation now is would be like an English court banning you from UK roads, because you were at a level now deemed illegal in Scotland.
Nigel Worc's said:
I wasn't aware there were different levels of theft between England & Scotland.
There are actually significant differences in the law on theft in Scotland and England. The one which springs to mind is that in Scotland theft doesn't require an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the property. So it's quite possible that an act could qualify as theft on one side of the border but not the other - eg this case might well have resulted in a conviction for theft in Scotland.Nigel Worc's said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I wasn't aware there were different levels of theft between England & Scotland.
I wasn't aware there were different levels of exceeding the drink drive limit in England & Scotland. You either exceed the prevailing limit, or you don't.You can now be over the limit in Scotland and be banned from driving here, when you'd be perfectly legal here, so shouldn't be banned here (in my opinion).
That is the crux of my arguement, Scotland should not have the power to ban anyone from driving in England & Wales, where the driver was at a level to be legal in England & Wales.
With my prescription scenario, you could be forced to do community service in Scotland for stealing something in England that would have been free in Scotland so wouldn't have been theft.
Using your own flawed theory, England should not have the power to punish someone in Scotland for a crime that wouldn't have been a crime in Scotland.
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