Scottish Drink Drving Chages

[Dammit]

XJ Flyer said:

If you fly to the Gulf states and break sharia law by drinking should that be punishable/extradictable if/when you get back to the UK.

It would appear that the penalty for drinking in Saudi is a public lashing, which I don't think Cameron has got round to introducing here yet, so the punishment as specified would not be legal under UK law.

You could possibly take a humiliating selfie with the hash-tag #couldntgowithoutadrink and see if that'd do.

Anyway, you seem fixated on Sharia law, is this simply an expression of your xenophobia or did you get caught drinking paint thinners in the Gulf?

[XJ Flyer]

TooMany2cvs said:

Because of exactly the kind of international reciprocity that some here are very glad doesn't apply between other EU countries and the UK. Sometimes, I think that some people don't realise Ireland is not part of the UK, but just another EU country, just like France or Spain or Romania - just one that we happen to have a few more (mainly historical) treaties with.

The obvious inference from that post being yet more confirmation that the motivation for both the Anglo/Irish and now the Scottish Sovereign/Confederal systems of traffic laws with a Federal/Reciprocal licence penalty system,was/is to roll that out across the EU.Fortunately the Germans seem to have stopped the idea in its tracks leaving the same arguments as applied in Germany ( and in many states within the USA ),against the idea,now ( rightly ) rumbling on here.

[TooMany2cvs]

Dammit said:

It would appear that the penalty for drinking in Saudi is a public lashing, which I don't think Cameron has got round to introducing here yet, so the punishment as specified would not be legal under UK law.

Even if it wasn't for such a subtle detail, the actual penalty would be administered over a very short period of time, and would involve the presence of the person involved in the jurisdiction for the entire duration of the penalty.

I wonder if we can see the difference between that and being banned from driving.

[XJ Flyer]

Dammit said:

XJ Flyer said:

If you fly to the Gulf states and break sharia law by drinking should that be punishable/extradictable if/when you get back to the UK.

It would appear that the penalty for drinking in Saudi is a public lashing, which I don't think Cameron has got round to introducing here yet, so the punishment as specified would not be legal under UK law.

The actual 'offence' isn't even legal under 'UK' law let alone the punishment which seems to be a fair description of the lower Irish and Scottish drink driving limits and resulting 'penalty'.

[TooMany2cvs]

XJ Flyer said:

The actual 'offence' isn't even legal under 'UK' law let alone the punishment which seems to be a fair description of the lower Irish and Scottish drink driving limits and resulting 'penalty'.

Every time you think somebody can't get even dafter in their disproportionate hyperbole, they prove you wrong...

[Dammit]

I think if you are stupid enough to get pissed in a public place, in Saudi, then you probably deserve what you get to be honest - if for no other reason than to teach you a bit of respect.

I might have a different view of this if I wasn't convinced that you are either a) Nigel Farage or b) a Farage Wannabe.

[Dammit]

Although that said maybe we've got XJ Flyer wrong and he is advocating a public lashing for minor traffic transgressions, and some more serious form of Medieval punishment for drink driving?

[XJ Flyer]

Dammit said:

Although that said maybe we've got XJ Flyer wrong and he is advocating a public lashing for minor traffic transgressions, and some more serious form of Medieval punishment for drink driving?

It is you who obviously thinks that the Saudi drinking laws and penalties regards same are proportional supposedly to teach 'respect'.

It is obviously also you who is advocating the proportionality of a UK driving licence disqualification for exceeding the Scottish drink drive limit.Hopefully the Germans have stopped the similar situation in regard to any EU federal driving licence penalty regime.

[Dammit]

Yes, that's clearly why I kept bringing up Sharia law.

Oh, wait..

Anyway, I'm not sure we're getting anywhere here - you (Nige, how about Nige?) are unshakeable in your certainty that you should be able to break whatever laws you don't agree with, and suffer no consequence at all (as long as it's in Forrin).

Which I am fairly sure is not what your view would be of said Forrins breaking the law in the UK - I expect you'd like French criminals to be flogged or similar, whilst you drink bitter and reminisce about the time your light aircraft crashed - probably due to immigrants.

[Nigel Worc's]

Dammit said:

Yes, that's clearly why I kept bringing up Sharia law.

Oh, wait..

Anyway, I'm not sure we're getting anywhere here - you (Nige, how about Nige?) are unshakeable in your certainty that you should be able to break whatever laws you don't agree with, and suffer no consequence at all (as long as it's in Forrin).

Which I am fairly sure is not what your view would be of said Forrins breaking the law in the UK - I expect you'd like French criminals to be flogged or similar, whilst you drink bitter and reminisce about the time your light aircraft crashed - probably due to immigrants.

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

[XJ Flyer]

Dammit said:

Yes, that's clearly why I kept bringing up Sharia law.

Oh, wait..

Anyway, I'm not sure we're getting anywhere here - you (Nige, how about Nige?) are unshakeable in your certainty that you should be able to break whatever laws you don't agree with, and suffer no consequence at all (as long as it's in Forrin).

Which I am fairly sure is not what your view would be of said Forrins breaking the law in the UK - I expect you'd like French criminals to be flogged or similar, whilst you drink bitter and reminisce about the time your light aircraft crashed - probably due to immigrants.

I think it is quite clear that I've got no issues with anyone driving while over the Scottish drink drive limit but within the UK one.As for the UK if Scotland wants a 'different' 'seperate' lower limit then we obviously need a 'different' 'seperate' licence penalty regime just as it should be in the case of Ireland.

By the same logic I've also got no issues with the 'current' EU 'licence penalty' regime wherever that may apply.In accordance with the German view of that situation as opposed to the obvious UK government view.

[Dammit]

Nigel Worc's said:

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

i.e. that you should be allowed to break the law (where you are) with impunity if it doesn't match with the law where you live.

I can, obviously, see the appeal of what appears to be a sort of legal arbitrage - would you like to use the laws where you happen to be if they are more suited to whichever act you wish to commit?

I'd suggest you man-up and accept that if you break the local laws, knowingly, that you should do so on the understanding that you may suffer the consequences - consequences which I think it would be fair to see pursue you across the border.

[Dammit]

And as there's only so many times you can say the same thing I'll leave the Nigel's to enjoy this thread.

[TooMany2cvs]

Nigel Worc's said:

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

For the umpty-seven-hundred-and-fourteenth time, it IS ILLEGAL in "your own country". Apart from the actual legislation remaining unchanged, then assuming you are from the UK (can we narrow it down to Worc'ster'shire, which might explain quite a lot?) YOU ARE IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY when you're in Scotland.

Alex lost, remember?

[v12Legs]

Nigel Worc's said:

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

The UK is one country. Funny, I thought I'd mentioned that already, but I guess not.

[Devil2575]

TooMany2cvs said:

XJ Flyer said:

The actual 'offence' isn't even legal under 'UK' law let alone the punishment which seems to be a fair description of the lower Irish and Scottish drink driving limits and resulting 'penalty'.

Every time you think somebody can't get even dafter in their disproportionate hyperbole, they prove you wrong...

If XJ Flyer has joined the debate then it's time to end it

[Red Devil]

alock said:

Dammit said:

alock said:

£20 round trip for two taxi journey's to enjoy one £4 pint is not sensible.

I cannot get to/from work on public transport so any after work drink would never happen again if I lived in Scotland.

How far do you live from work? How far is your work from somewhere that you can get to via public transport?

I'm going to hazard a guess that "cannot" means "don't want to", unless your place of work is more than 10 miles from anywhere you can get to on public transport.

Live 5 miles north of Winchester. Work North-East Basingstoke.

20 miles by road. Takes 25-30 minutes in the car.

First bus leaves our village at about 8:05am which means I cannot get an early enough train to then get to Basingstoke to then get another bus across Basingstoke by 9:00am. Total public transport journey is over an hour. The problem is the start time. If we had a bus that left our village at about 7:00am then lots of people in our village could use public transport. As it is, only people who work in Winchester have it as an option. If you work in another town then you must drive unless your employer allows you to start at 9:30am.

Public transport is a joke for large parts of the country.

Indeed. If you look at his profile it is clear he has little concept of rural life. You are lucky btw. In some places there is only one bus once a day (and back) during the week. In others it's only on a Saturday. Some really fortunate ones get none at all.

[Devil2575]

Red Devil said:

alock said:

Dammit said:

alock said:

£20 round trip for two taxi journey's to enjoy one £4 pint is not sensible.

I cannot get to/from work on public transport so any after work drink would never happen again if I lived in Scotland.

How far do you live from work? How far is your work from somewhere that you can get to via public transport?

I'm going to hazard a guess that "cannot" means "don't want to", unless your place of work is more than 10 miles from anywhere you can get to on public transport.

Live 5 miles north of Winchester. Work North-East Basingstoke.

20 miles by road. Takes 25-30 minutes in the car.

First bus leaves our village at about 8:05am which means I cannot get an early enough train to then get to Basingstoke to then get another bus across Basingstoke by 9:00am. Total public transport journey is over an hour. The problem is the start time. If we had a bus that left our village at about 7:00am then lots of people in our village could use public transport. As it is, only people who work in Winchester have it as an option. If you work in another town then you must drive unless your employer allows you to start at 9:30am.

Public transport is a joke for large parts of the country.

Indeed. If you look at his profile it is clear he has little concept of rural life. You are lucky btw. In some places there is only one bus once a day (and back) during the week. In others it's only on a Saturday. Some really fortunate ones get none at all.

But so what?

So where you live makes iy difficult to go for a drink and get home without resorting to expensive taxis. Should the law really be catering for people who want to have a beer before getting behind the wheel?

I don't live in an especially rural location but the availibility of public transport frequently means a drink normally involves a taxi ride at some point. That's just life.

[alock]

Devil2575 said:

Red Devil said:

alock said:

Dammit said:

alock said:

£20 round trip for two taxi journey's to enjoy one £4 pint is not sensible.

I cannot get to/from work on public transport so any after work drink would never happen again if I lived in Scotland.

How far do you live from work? How far is your work from somewhere that you can get to via public transport?

I'm going to hazard a guess that "cannot" means "don't want to", unless your place of work is more than 10 miles from anywhere you can get to on public transport.

Live 5 miles north of Winchester. Work North-East Basingstoke.

20 miles by road. Takes 25-30 minutes in the car.

First bus leaves our village at about 8:05am which means I cannot get an early enough train to then get to Basingstoke to then get another bus across Basingstoke by 9:00am. Total public transport journey is over an hour. The problem is the start time. If we had a bus that left our village at about 7:00am then lots of people in our village could use public transport. As it is, only people who work in Winchester have it as an option. If you work in another town then you must drive unless your employer allows you to start at 9:30am.

Public transport is a joke for large parts of the country.

Indeed. If you look at his profile it is clear he has little concept of rural life. You are lucky btw. In some places there is only one bus once a day (and back) during the week. In others it's only on a Saturday. Some really fortunate ones get none at all.

But so what?

So where you live makes iy difficult to go for a drink and get home without resorting to expensive taxis. Should the law really be catering for people who want to have a beer before getting behind the wheel?

I don't live in an especially rural location but the availibility of public transport frequently means a drink normally involves a taxi ride at some point. That's just life.

Below is the original post I was replying to which was dropped in Dammit's first reply. It's slightly off topic from the main thread. The point I was getting at was that for most of my colleagues and friends (as well as for me), at least half of our trips to a pub are when driving, typically on the way home from work. If the Scottish law was introduced here then it would impact local communities and pubs.

Dammit said:

I didn't realise that the only way in which one could get to a country pub was to drive to it.

If, just for one second, we imagined a world in which we could get to the pub in some other way just think - we could have 3, 4 or even 5 drinks!

Utter madness of course - any fule kno that it's impossible to travel from A to B without being in a car (that you yourself are driving).

[XJ Flyer]

TooMany2cvs said:

Nigel Worc's said:

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

For the umpty-seven-hundred-and-fourteenth time, it IS ILLEGAL in "your own country".

Exactly how do you reach the conclusion that exceeding the Scottish drink drive limit is 'illegal' in the 'UK'.If we're going to have a confederal UK then we need a confederal licence penalty system.