Scottish Drink Drving Chages

[XJ Flyer]

Dammit said:

Nigel Worc's said:

No we aren't, we seem to think that we shouldn't be punished in our own country for something that isn't illegal in our own country,

i.e. that you should be allowed to break the law (where you are) with impunity if it doesn't match with the law where you live.

I can, obviously, see the appeal of what appears to be a sort of legal arbitrage - would you like to use the laws where you happen to be if they are more suited to whichever act you wish to commit?

I'd suggest you man-up and accept that if you break the local laws, knowingly, that you should do so on the understanding that you may suffer the consequences - consequences which I think it would be fair to see pursue you across the border.

Which seems to confirm the real agenda behind this UK government stitch up in trying to impose that idea across the EU.Fortunately,so far,those with your view have been stopped by the Germans amongst many US states,all of who obviously don't agree.

[TooMany2cvs]

XJ Flyer said:

Exactly how do you reach the conclusion that exceeding the Scottish drink drive limit is 'illegal' in the 'UK'.

Because Scotland _IS_ part of the UK...

[Red Devil]

Devil2575 said:

But so what?

So where you live makes iy difficult to go for a drink and get home without resorting to expensive taxis.

You have jumped in with both feet which is what so many posters on here do without any evidence to support their conclusions. Without having the slightest idea where I live you have assumed that it is in one of the rural areas I referred to. You're completely off base with that one I'm afraid. Furthermore I was responding to a poster who was talking about his journey to work: nothing whatsoever to do with going for a drink and getting home afterwards. And lastly I never drink alcohol if I am going to be driving, either that same day or the morning after. Therefore the change won't ever affect me personally. That doesn't mean I'm barred from having an opinion on it though because it is part of a much wider issue.

Devil2575 said:

Should the law really be catering for people who want to have a beer before getting behind the wheel?

A facile comment. It already does. One pint will not see anyone blow over 35 in E&W and is pretty unlikely to do so at 22 in Scotland either. See the post by rs1952 on page 11.

Devil2575 said:

I don't live in an especially rural location but the availibility of public transport frequently means a drink normally involves a taxi ride at some point. That's just life.

Sorry to hear that you're put to some inconvenience. I don't need a car if I want to drink alcohol in a pub btw. There happen to be 3 within easy walking distance of my humble abode. Oddly enough in many cases you're still likely to be closer to a pub out in the shires than on the fringes of some more populated areas. A lot of villages still have one. As an example I have just been looking at the map of the Leicestershire/Rutland border. A goodly number of pubs within a ~3 mile radius of each other.

I come from a generation that wasn't wedded to the automobile. I passed my test some years before the Road Safety Bill became law and back then I lived way out in the sticks. Unfortunately I wasn't wealthy enough to afford my own car at that point and my father wouldn't let me borrow his if I was going down the pub! The nearest taxi service was a one man operation in a village nearly four miles distant. Besides with my meagre income that was a luxury I couldn't afford on a regular basis. Buses were infrequent (not to mention achingly slow) and there was no service after 7.30 in the evening. So it was go by bicycle or walk. A mile and a half each way on foot to our local village was nothing. I frequently used to do in excess of three times that to the nearest town. If I wanted to go and see a film it meant persuading my father to let me borrow his car as the nearest cinema was a twelve mile trip each way. Drinks meant either a coffee or a milk shake.

It never occurred to me to abuse his trust because should he ever have found out I was guaranteed never to be allowed to borrow it again. A different world back then.

[XJ Flyer]

TooMany2cvs said:

XJ Flyer said:

Exactly how do you reach the conclusion that exceeding the Scottish drink drive limit is 'illegal' in the 'UK'.

Because Scotland _IS_ part of the UK...

But the 'Scottish' drink drive limit isn't.As I said if we're going to have a confederal UK traffic regulation system then we should also have a confederal licence penalty system.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Wednesday 10th December 17:03

[XJ Flyer]

Red Devil said:

If I wanted to go and see a film it meant persuading my father to let me borrow his car as the nearest cinema was a twelve mile trip each way. Drinks meant either a coffee or a milk shake.

It never occurred to me to abuse his trust because should he ever have found out I was guaranteed never to be allowed to borrow it again. A different world back then.

The world as I remember it was always one in which a zero or effectively zero alcohol limit was never considered a prerequisite to drive safely.Just as there was never any need to apply 40 or 50 mph limits on previously NSL roads.

[Red Devil]

The current drink drive limit has been around for quite a long time - 8th October 1967 per the Road Safety Act 1967.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/history...

One of Barbara Castle's projects. Introduced a couple of years after Tom Fraser introduced his speed limit experiment.
(Having done so, within weeks he promptly vacated his ministerial post and left it to Barbara to sort out).

[GuitarPlayer63]

Am I the only one that sees the broader connotations here?

Up till now, Scottish Law and English law have remained separate. Yet both exist with one Road Licensing authority (DVLA) which hasn't been an issue since the rules of the road have been in sync.

Scottish Law has up to this point only had direct consequence to people in Scotland, like house buying, divorce and so on.

The bigger issue at stake is that the Scottish Government is able to pass legislation with consequences that seem to reach beyond it's jurisdiction inside the United Kingdom.

IMHO, it would make some sense to have a ban / points system on the driving licence that reflect if the ban is based on the offender being between 50mg and 80mg thus ensuring the driver could not drive in Scotland, but could drive entirely legally in the rest of the Union. Furthermore, it should then be expressly clarified to the Scottish Government that they can only pass laws that have an impact in Scotland that will not then be enforceable in the rest of the Union unless the rest of the countries in the Union also pass the same legislation.

[XJ Flyer]

GuitarPlayer63 said:

Am I the only one that sees the broader connotations here?

Up till now, Scottish Law and English law have remained separate. Yet both exist with one Road Licensing authority (DVLA) which hasn't been an issue since the rules of the road have been in sync.

Scottish Law has up to this point only had direct consequence to people in Scotland, like house buying, divorce and so on.

The bigger issue at stake is that the Scottish Government is able to pass legislation with consequences that seem to reach beyond it's jurisdiction inside the United Kingdom.

IMHO, it would make some sense to have a ban / points system on the driving licence that reflect if the ban is based on the offender being between 50mg and 80mg thus ensuring the driver could not drive in Scotland, but could drive entirely legally in the rest of the Union. Furthermore, it should then be expressly clarified to the Scottish Government that they can only pass laws that have an impact in Scotland that will not then be enforceable in the rest of the Union unless the rest of the countries in the Union also pass the same legislation.

That just seems to confirm what I said regarding the contradiction contained in having a federal licence penalty system with a confederal traffic law system.Which is why many states in the US won't get involved in such a federal licence penalty system and it is also ( hopefully ) why the UK won't get its way in pushing through a federal EU licence penalty system.In this case you seem to have missed the point that the 'UK' government as a whole is actually in 'favour' of the situation which now applies between it and Ireland and England and Scotland while also having pushed for the same across the EU.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Tuesday 16th December 16:58

Edited by XJ Flyer on Tuesday 16th December 16:59