Hare-brained safety 'improvement' scheme results in tragedy

Hare-brained safety 'improvement' scheme results in tragedy

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Phatboy317

Original Poster:

801 posts

117 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
quotequote all
At the start of the year, the South Gloucestershire Council implemented a road safety 'improvement' scheme in Chipping Sodbury.

At the time, there was a discussion about this on another PH thread, here

Sadly, an elderly couple have now died as a result of this harebrained scheme:

News report here

Not only did they reduce the carriageway from dual to one lane, but they turned what was the inside lane into a bicycle lane, as well as turning the former filter lane into a parking place for scamera vans.
Now, people turning out of Hounds road have to pull out right over the bicycle lane, and directly into what was previously the outside lane, besides anything else, leaving oncoming traffic no space to swerve out if someone does turn out at the wrong time.

In short, they made the road more dangerous, in some vain attempt to slow people down, and now people have died.

They have blood on their hands!


Edited by Phatboy317 on Wednesday 19th November 23:22

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Wednesday 19th November 2014
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Expect a further reduction in speed limit following this accident.

carinaman

21,214 posts

171 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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That's inconvenient with it being National Road Safety Week where it seems the police are doing joint exercises with BRAKE!

ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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Phatboy317 said:
They have blood on their hands!
This is the kind of attitude which makes it almost impossible for any government to ever raise speed limits


Phatboy317

Original Poster:

801 posts

117 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
ging84 said:
This is the kind of attitude which makes it almost impossible for any government to ever raise speed limits
As if...

If you want to see attitude, have a look at attitude of the council, evident in the other PH thread I linked to above.

Type R Tom

3,859 posts

148 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
Phatboy317 said:
ging84 said:
This is the kind of attitude which makes it almost impossible for any government to ever raise speed limits
As if...

If you want to see attitude, have a look at attitude of the council, evident in the other PH thread I linked to above.
So let me understand, the Council make changes that "cause" an accident (no evidence yet road layout to blame that I can see) so they have blood on their hands. The same Council increases a speed limit (or does something equally PH friendly) and someone dies, does the same Council still have blood on their hands?

Ask for a copy of the Road Safety Audit, see if a professional thinks it's dangerous.

singlecoil

33,311 posts

245 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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Phatboy317 said:
At the start of the year, the South Gloucestershire Council implemented a road safety 'improvement' scheme in Chipping Sodbury...
Neither you nor the report you linked to has made any real effort to explain what exactly happened, and why it is the fault of anybody but the parties directly involved.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
Phatboy317 said:
They have blood on their hands!
No they don't.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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Phatboy317 said:
Now, people turning out of Hounds road have to pull out right over the bicycle lane, and directly into what was previously the outside lane, besides anything else, leaving oncoming traffic no space to swerve out if someone does turn out at the wrong time.
Here's a thought... Perhaps they shouldn't "turn out at the wrong time"?

http://goo.gl/maps/vxTEt is the view from the junction, yes?

The deceased were turning left, and somehow managed to do so right into the path of a truck in a 30 limit. WTF? Did they not _look_?

If there was an issue over line-of-sight, then - yes - I can see that road improvements might be a possible cause, but - unless that is one SERIOUSLY misleading view - not in this case.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
No you're wrong. The CLOWNCIL deliberately made the road dangerous because the muppet in charge's wife works for the scamera people. If you can't see how it's anyone else's fault but the idiot civil servants on their final salary pensions and with their jobs for life, then you should leave my country toot sweet.

singlecoil

33,311 posts

245 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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smilesmilesmile

cptsideways

13,535 posts

251 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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I am aware of other similar junctions, eg Willoughby Hedge (Esso petrol station) on the A303 Westbound just after Stonehenge. Originally it had a left turn slipway onto the carriageway now it been reduced to a T Junction type turn. The road is still wide enough but the white lines now make it dangerous.

I have often had to use the blanked off areas to safely dodge vehicles that pull out on you.

rs1952

5,247 posts

258 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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This is a road that I used to use on a daily basis when I lived in Chipping Sodbury, and that time it was a section of dual carriageway with an NSL applying.

Google Street View appears to be a little out of date, but this is what it looked like before they started buggering about with it.


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
rs1952 said:
with an NSL applying.
Street lights, no repeater signs?

Phatboy317

Original Poster:

801 posts

117 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Here's a thought... Perhaps they shouldn't "turn out at the wrong time"?

http://goo.gl/maps/vxTEt is the view from the junction, yes?

The deceased were turning left, and somehow managed to do so right into the path of a truck in a 30 limit. WTF? Did they not _look_?

If there was an issue over line-of-sight, then - yes - I can see that road improvements might be a possible cause, but - unless that is one SERIOUSLY misleading view - not in this case.
That view is what it used to look like before they implemented the 'improvements'.
To get an idea of what it looks like now, see my description in the first post above, look at the South Gloucs. consultation plans linked to in the other thread, or go there and have a look for yourself.

Drivers make mistakes - the big difference here is that they changed the road layout to one which is far less forgiving of mistakes.
And this was arguably done by professionals, who you'd think should know better.

This accident is the first fatal accident ever at that junction, and it comes just months after these changes were mande.


CAPP0

19,530 posts

202 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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If it is at all possible for anyone to take any comfort from this incident, I spoke with a local councillor this week about a particularly-badly laid out junction near where I live. He said that the matter had been taken up with the county council and the police, but it has apparently been specifically stated that nothing will change until/unless there is a fatality! Which does rather beggar belief - but we probably won't have to wait long, I myself have been the victim of an RTC there (someone ran a red light at high speed and t-boned me) and accidents occur with boring frequency. Still seems a bizarre stance to take.

Type R Tom

3,859 posts

148 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
Phatboy317 said:
That view is what it used to look like before they implemented the 'improvements'.
To get an idea of what it looks like now, see my description in the first post above, look at the South Gloucs. consultation plans linked to in the other thread, or go there and have a look for yourself.

Drivers make mistakes - the big difference here is that they changed the road layout to one which is far less forgiving of mistakes.
And this was arguably done by professionals, who you'd think should know better.

This accident is the first fatal accident ever at that junction, and it comes just months after these changes were mande.
If it had been me I might have done it slightly differently but ignoring for a second the fact it used to be a dual, in it's current layout how is it any different from any other left turn onto a single lane across a cycle lane on a 40 mph speed limit?

Phatboy317

Original Poster:

801 posts

117 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
rs1952 said:
with an NSL applying.
Street lights, no repeater signs?
Why don't you check it out yourself with StreetView, before you start making people into liars?

The StreetView shows a 50mph limit - before then it was NSL.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
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CAPP0 said:
If it is at all possible for anyone to take any comfort from this incident, I spoke with a local councillor this week about a particularly-badly laid out junction near where I live. He said that the matter had been taken up with the county council and the police, but it has apparently been specifically stated that nothing will change until/unless there is a fatality! Which does rather beggar belief - but we probably won't have to wait long, I myself have been the victim of an RTC there (someone ran a red light at high speed and t-boned me) and accidents occur with boring frequency. Still seems a bizarre stance to take.
I fail to see the relevance. How is that the fault of the highway designers/engineers? Or do you accept that it's the fault of the driver who ran the red light? Do you think there should be no traffic lights at all, and that would be safer or more dangerous?

You could always provide a link to the junction in question so that those of us in the game can have a look and suggest why things may or may not need to change, or offer an explanation to the CLOWNCIL'S response? That would, of course, mean that there may be some defence to the current layout and that's not what this thread is intended to be about, but hey ho, you put it on the table, it would be remiss to ignore it.

Phatboy317

Original Poster:

801 posts

117 months

Thursday 20th November 2014
quotequote all
Type R Tom said:
If it had been me I might have done it slightly differently but ignoring for a second the fact it used to be a dual, in it's current layout how is it any different from any other left turn onto a single lane across a cycle lane on a 40 mph speed limit?
For one thing, single lane roads usually don't have a big barrier running down the centre, so people have room to swerve out if necessary.
And you now have to go halfway across the road at an angle to cross the cycle lane in order to get into the driving lane.
What used to be a left-turn slip lane is now a parking place for scamera vans.