Coppers confessing
Discussion
On Ch4 last night there was a programme about the 'good old days' of policing, when coppers were 'respected', unlike now.
It was an encapsulation of attitudes and behaviour of the Met police during the 60s, 70s and a little into the 80s, a time of massive change for the police in this country.
Two things struck me:
The whole concentration of the programme was on the Mets, as if they epitomised the service as a whole, despite being a minority, and
There were casual confessions of brutality, even torture, from coppers who bemoaned the loss of what they called respect. It seems they rejoiced in their brutality and the fear is caused. Even the excuse of golden reason corruption, i.e. it being done in order to find the truth in serious cases, was contradicted.
The casual and studied racism of the service in those days was broached.
There were a couple of younger officers with a more current ethos and attitude, but hardly a counterbalance.
It contradicts the stories of the good old days quite comprehensively.
There were specific problems with county forces in those days, but this were different to those of the Met.
The problem with the Met is its sheer size. It was, and remains, all but unmanageable. We all, no doubt, look forward to these problems being eliminated when, as promised, the 43 forces are amalgamated into a dozen or so super forces.
I've said it before but it bears repeating: now has never been a better time to be arrested for an offence in this country, whether guilty or not.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of/... For those who missed it.
It was an encapsulation of attitudes and behaviour of the Met police during the 60s, 70s and a little into the 80s, a time of massive change for the police in this country.
Two things struck me:
The whole concentration of the programme was on the Mets, as if they epitomised the service as a whole, despite being a minority, and
There were casual confessions of brutality, even torture, from coppers who bemoaned the loss of what they called respect. It seems they rejoiced in their brutality and the fear is caused. Even the excuse of golden reason corruption, i.e. it being done in order to find the truth in serious cases, was contradicted.
The casual and studied racism of the service in those days was broached.
There were a couple of younger officers with a more current ethos and attitude, but hardly a counterbalance.
It contradicts the stories of the good old days quite comprehensively.
There were specific problems with county forces in those days, but this were different to those of the Met.
The problem with the Met is its sheer size. It was, and remains, all but unmanageable. We all, no doubt, look forward to these problems being eliminated when, as promised, the 43 forces are amalgamated into a dozen or so super forces.
I've said it before but it bears repeating: now has never been a better time to be arrested for an offence in this country, whether guilty or not.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/confessions-of/... For those who missed it.
Edited by Derek Smith on Thursday 20th November 09:16
I think some coppers (as well as crims/gansters) confuse respect with fear.
Of course many people feared some cops/crims "back in the day" (for better or worse) but that is not the same as respecting them, often quite the reverse.
Anyway, I will watch with interest, purely for the insight and to know what the attitudes were in those days. It was a different time so not going to judge in comparison today.
Of course many people feared some cops/crims "back in the day" (for better or worse) but that is not the same as respecting them, often quite the reverse.
Anyway, I will watch with interest, purely for the insight and to know what the attitudes were in those days. It was a different time so not going to judge in comparison today.
I did think of you when I saw it. How accurate did you find the stories?
The Met is the centre of the universe as far as policing is concerned.The rose-tinting by many, who foolishly think it was better back then, really don't know how much better many things are these days.
I remember now-retired Inspector tell me when he first joined, that someone had come into the police station to complain. The result was the person who complained being dragged down some stairs and put in a cell for several hours until he decided he didn't want to complain again.
The Met is the centre of the universe as far as policing is concerned.The rose-tinting by many, who foolishly think it was better back then, really don't know how much better many things are these days.
I remember now-retired Inspector tell me when he first joined, that someone had come into the police station to complain. The result was the person who complained being dragged down some stairs and put in a cell for several hours until he decided he didn't want to complain again.
La Liga said:
I did think of you when I saw it. How accurate did you find the stories?
The Met is the centre of the universe as far as policing is concerned.The rose-tinting by many, who foolishly think it was better back then, really don't know how much better many things are these days.
I remember now-retired Inspector tell me when he first joined, that someone had come into the police station to complain. The result was the person who complained being dragged down some stairs and put in a cell for several hours until he decided he didn't want to complain again.
What was said came as no surprise to me although the beatings were administered covertly in my day and PCs were more proprietary about their prisoners. Certainly I never had one of mine physically abused. That said, I was interviewed by the Countryman enquiry about a prisoner who was beaten so badly that he died and was later dropped onto a road in front of a bus to cover it up. Or so I was told. That was in 1977 for the murder, and 81 - 2 for my interview.The Met is the centre of the universe as far as policing is concerned.The rose-tinting by many, who foolishly think it was better back then, really don't know how much better many things are these days.
I remember now-retired Inspector tell me when he first joined, that someone had come into the police station to complain. The result was the person who complained being dragged down some stairs and put in a cell for several hours until he decided he didn't want to complain again.
I’d not actually had anything to do with the prisoner.
There was the ‘suicide’ of the pop’s banker, Calvi, around the time of my interview.
So many of the corrupt officer felt they could get away with anything they wanted but by that time, it had changed.
But the heavies were still there in my time and there is no doubt in my mind that beatings went on, although I have no evidence of it. It was all hearsay.
Respect and fear: why is there the problem in differentiation?
I agree about the Met being the only force in the country.
What didn't come over was how welcomed taped interviews were by the working PCs. The ones who objected to their introduction were the criminal lawyers. CCTV - much later I know - was similarly something of a relief for most.
I had a number of dealings with foreign prisoners, those from certain civilised European countries which were held up as fine examples of probity 15 years ago. They were, almost to a man, shocked at how well they were treated over here. We have a couple of regular translators. We used to put them in with the prisoners for ten minutes before the interview and they would explain procedures. You could tell - it was on CCTV but not audio - that they didn't believe what they were told.
One prisoner refused to talk to one woman because she was obviously a police stooge. After all, she was telling lies.
The comparison between the police in London in the 70s and in counties in the 80s and subsequently is faintly farcical.
That said, there was more casual racism in Brighton. There was a religious do at the Brighton Centre, all alleluias and praise him for everything nice sot of thing. We were in a van driving down West Street and a black youth in white shirt, blazer, pressed trousers, patent shoes and wearing a tie, was pointed to by one PC who asked: What's he up to. I'd just transferred and laughed as I thought it was a joke, but he and the rest of the crew honestly viewed him as suspect.
Whilst the diversity training was criticised in the programme, attitudes have changed considerably.
One of, if not the, the last ones I was sent on was organised by a university for post graduate research. One chap, black, had been stopped so many times that the procedure was stopped by the police there and we all gave the chap advice on what to do. I was the most senior officer present and I said that I felt obliged to to take it further if the chap would cooperate. The two PCs were shocked as was the sergeant.
The woman running the course tried to intervene but we told her that we'd been presented with an allegation, supported by dates and notes taken at the time, of behaviour that was verging on criminal so had to do something.
The chap said that 'our', that's the police's, comments and actions showed that for us there was no point in the course. There was no false response from the police. In fact it carried on during the lunch break. The PCs were aghast and had I not been there, with the aged sergeant, they probably would not have believed that the police would behave that way.
As we left the truncated course the comparison with the 70s came to mind.
We had some illegals at Gatwick who'd come over in a container. They'd gone through Germany, Belgium, France and Italy before miraculously being discovered by the driver just as the lorry was going to go through X-ray.
I asked them as they were drinking tea in the nick, made by the PCs, and eating sandwiches my guys had shared with them (including the super's biscuits - the bloke was largely detested), why they hadn't got out as soon as they entered the EU - which their country now has. The chap I asked pointed around and asked me if I honestly thought that people, especially illegals, would be treated with consideration by the police in any of the other countries.
He told a few stories he'd heard from others who'd got into one particular country. Yet it would not have occurred to any of my officers, the ones with self-loading rifles held across their chests, to do anything other than treat them as they would anyone else. And as they hadn't eaten for two or three days, nor had a hot drink, the solution was obvious.
I think everyone shared their sarnies and had it not been night duty and the cooking facilities closed (night duty officers are like the little elves who repair shoes for the cobbler in the mind of the higher ranks. They don't need feeding) they would have cooked a hot meal.
But police officers nowadays are racist, brutal and hate all foreigners. Unlike in the old days when they we so well respected - presumably because they would beat the s
t out of every prisoner.You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
Derek Smith said:
You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
I have limited contact with the police, I do have an old friend ex constable who in the good old days would go out and enjoy a drink or many and drive home, got stopped once and fell out the car as the police opened his door, managed to produce his warrant card and was helped back into his seat and sent on his way. Pretty sure this would not happen now. It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.Best of luck to you.
Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
Shelsleyf2 said:
Derek Smith said:
You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
I have limited contact with the police, I do have an old friend ex constable who in the good old days would go out and enjoy a drink or many and drive home, got stopped once and fell out the car as the police opened his door, managed to produce his warrant card and was helped back into his seat and sent on his way. Pretty sure this would not happen now. It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.Best of luck to you.
Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
I don't think Derek is being sarcastic!
I think he does respect the current chaps and knows he got a damn good deal... I think!
Shelsleyf2 said:
Derek Smith said:
You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
I have limited contact with the police, I do have an old friend ex constable who in the good old days would go out and enjoy a drink or many and drive home, got stopped once and fell out the car as the police opened his door, managed to produce his warrant card and was helped back into his seat and sent on his way. Pretty sure this would not happen now. It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.Best of luck to you.
Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
I was headhunted by a well-known credit card company. I was a sergeant.
The deal they offered was for me to work an extra 2-3 years for an identical pension. Further, the conditions of employment were better, with limited 'shift' work, i.e. out of hours. There was a car included, share options, bits and pieces thrown in. Further, had I contributed to a pension fund, instead of the government just keeping that money back from the imprest, the extra years would have not been required. I would have had an office, my own phone, and if promoted, a secretary, although shared.
I didn't take it but a chap who did found that his pension was as good as the police pension was when he put his card in. Further, the enhance interest rates he'd been able to access had enabled him to buy a couple of houses abroad that paid for themselves and in those days had some value.
Don't forget that in the pay review in the 70s it was decided to reduce the award in order compensate for the pension, which at that time made a profit for the government, and continued to do so until the late 90s.
The pay for the credit card company was greater, as were the benefits, as were the conditions. There was considerably less danger as well.
I chose to stay with a role that I enjoyed and am fairly pleased I did.
The pension was used as a way to keep officers in post. If you left early all you got back was what you supposedly paid in, without any interest. Yet officers still left, and in droves at one time. When unemployment goes up then the leaving rate drops so the pension works to that extent. We have a queue of suitable people wanting to join the police nowadays but that was hardly the norm in my time. The pension was featured high in the recruiting literature.
So the cost of the pension to the officer has to include the lack of other benefits available to people in a similar role in private industry, a lower wage because of the pension, the risk to the pension if someone wanted to move jobs, and the tremendous loss of value of the pension if an officer, for instance, was injured on duty to the extent that they were unable to work but would be likely to be able to work at an unspecified time in the future.
The pension with the credit card company included insurance for inability to work. Details now lost in the fog of time.
Shelsleyf2 said:
It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.
As I said, the CCTV in cell blocks was not so much welcomed as demanded by police officers. Normally, the reasons there are few prosecutions/discipline is that CCTV provides a welcome defence for the persons with responsibility for the prisoners.I remember once that a busy cell block had had cctv cameras installed and a blind spot was discovered. The force were reluctant to spend more money on a camera but the custody officers demanded it.
CCTV in cell blocks came at the same time as significant reduction in complaints of ill-treatment by officers. This could be because the officers knew that had to behave or, many officers suggested, because the offenders could not, normally under instruction, lie about what had happened to them in the cell block.
On top of that, and not mentioned by those who report on such matters, the police have been lumbered with responsibility for those who require specialised treatment. Many deaths are to those with severe mental problems or bad health and the police lack the ability, and the training, to be able to cope with any degree of professionalism.
Shelsleyf2 said:
I have limited contact with the police, I do have an old friend ex constable who in the good old days would go out and enjoy a drink or many and drive home, got stopped once and fell out the car as the police opened his door, managed to produce his warrant card and was helped back into his seat and sent on his way. Pretty sure this would not happen now. It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.
Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
You clearly don't know the IPCC very well. They exist to ensure they continue to exist. That means screwing over any Officer they get the chance to. Are you suggesting that we should have show trials to appease the usual suspects when a death following Police contact occurs. Do you even know the definition of a death following Police contact.Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
As for the pension. If it's so good, why don't you join. Everybody has a choice. When you're getting a size 12 boot stuck into your head, you might not think it was such a good deal after all.
Anyone who looks at my posting history will realise I'm not anti police. And I certainly am more critical of myself than anyone else.
However the idea that assaults and abuse don't go on now are deluded. I've taken a beating before whilst on the floor in handcuffs. I've seen others receive that. I've also had officers tell lies and go out of their way to "get me". My own behaviour was certainly the catalyst to bring out the worst in some people, however the idea that it just doesn't happen now isn't reality.
On the flipped - most of the officers I ever met or had dealings with were not like that. Infact I only had reason to feel really aggrieved with two. One was a custody sergeant and one was a DC. Some police officers were great and actually tried to help me.
However I can still vividly remember lying in a cell after being moved from a camera cell to one without a camera, with an arm around my neck and not being able to breath whilst I was being choked. I didn't pass out. However I was close to it. I was lying on the floor just numb for a couple of hours with my windpipe in agony. When I did make a complaint I had an inspector call me and say he'd spoken to the Sergeant and other officers and it didn't happen. When I was lying on the floor and my vision was going the panic that took over me was horrific.
So yes - I'm sure things are better. But lets not delude outselves into thinking they are perfect.
However the idea that assaults and abuse don't go on now are deluded. I've taken a beating before whilst on the floor in handcuffs. I've seen others receive that. I've also had officers tell lies and go out of their way to "get me". My own behaviour was certainly the catalyst to bring out the worst in some people, however the idea that it just doesn't happen now isn't reality.
On the flipped - most of the officers I ever met or had dealings with were not like that. Infact I only had reason to feel really aggrieved with two. One was a custody sergeant and one was a DC. Some police officers were great and actually tried to help me.
However I can still vividly remember lying in a cell after being moved from a camera cell to one without a camera, with an arm around my neck and not being able to breath whilst I was being choked. I didn't pass out. However I was close to it. I was lying on the floor just numb for a couple of hours with my windpipe in agony. When I did make a complaint I had an inspector call me and say he'd spoken to the Sergeant and other officers and it didn't happen. When I was lying on the floor and my vision was going the panic that took over me was horrific.
So yes - I'm sure things are better. But lets not delude outselves into thinking they are perfect.
Derek Smith said:
the pension, which at that time made a profit for the government, and continued to do so until the late 90s.
This isn't the first time you've made this disingenuous claim.The pension scheme never 'makes a profit', as you put it. In common with all 'pay in now, take out later' schemes, more is paid in during the early stages than taken out; this is very different to making a profit.
walm said:
Elroy Blue said:
Do you even know the definition of a death following Police contact.
Slightly concerning that it needs a "definition" to be honest!if someone gets run over by a bus 23h 59 minutes after being arrest and 12 hours after being relased it still hyas to be referred to the IPCC.
Rovinghawk said:
Derek Smith said:
the pension, which at that time made a profit for the government, and continued to do so until the late 90s.
This isn't the first time you've made this disingenuous claim.The pension scheme never 'makes a profit', as you put it. In common with all 'pay in now, take out later' schemes, more is paid in during the early stages than taken out; this is very different to making a profit.
You know exactly what I mean and you know I am right.
The government reduced payments from police officers in the expectation, that proved correct up until the middle 90s, that the 'average' officer would claim back less than he received after retirement. And that is without taking interest into account. Up until the middle 80s the difference was tremendous. 'A scandal' is the way it was described.
So by any unbiased and sensible reckoning, the government made a profit, one which they spun to make out that it didn't even draw even.
On top of that, the pay was reduced because of this false benefit. On top of on top of that the percentage taken was more than the pensionable amount.
I'll keep on saying the truth until those who, for whatever personal reason, keep saying that the police over the years were not fleeced.
And I forgot to mention that the ones who reaped all the benefit were those of high rank as they got more than they paid in in those days. So the poor bloody PC got a lot less than the average.
No need to believe someone who, when he was thinking of leaving the service, decided to do some of his own research and not just go by those who had no idea what they were talking about.
Derek Smith said:
Shelsleyf2 said:
Derek Smith said:
You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
I have limited contact with the police, I do have an old friend ex constable who in the good old days would go out and enjoy a drink or many and drive home, got stopped once and fell out the car as the police opened his door, managed to produce his warrant card and was helped back into his seat and sent on his way. Pretty sure this would not happen now. It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.Best of luck to you.
Re your pension do you have any idea on the sum of money that would be required to buy an annuity to pay your pension? If you joined at 20 retired at 50 and lived to 8o you would be drawing a pension for the same number of years you contributed, do you seriously believe paying 12% of your earnings would fund that?. I assume your pension is linked to the current pay rate? Just for comparison if you retired at 55 with £1,000,000 in your fund you could have a pension of £31,000 rpi linked. If you believe by contribution 12% of your salary for 30 years you built up £1,000,000 in a pot then your seemingly sarcastic comment is well made.
The average age for a new police recruit in 2013 had increased significantly to 26 so I think my quoting my friend who started at 20 and has now retired is a fair example and matched that of his peers.
I was headhunted by a well-known credit card company. I was a sergeant.
The deal they offered was for me to work an extra 2-3 years for an identical pension. Further, the conditions of employment were better, with limited 'shift' work, i.e. out of hours. There was a car included, share options, bits and pieces thrown in. Further, had I contributed to a pension fund, instead of the government just keeping that money back from the imprest, the extra years would have not been required. I would have had an office, my own phone, and if promoted, a secretary, although shared.
I didn't take it but a chap who did found that his pension was as good as the police pension was when he put his card in. Further, the enhance interest rates he'd been able to access had enabled him to buy a couple of houses abroad that paid for themselves and in those days had some value.
Don't forget that in the pay review in the 70s it was decided to reduce the award in order compensate for the pension, which at that time made a profit for the government, and continued to do so until the late 90s.
The pay for the credit card company was greater, as were the benefits, as were the conditions. There was considerably less danger as well.
I chose to stay with a role that I enjoyed and am fairly pleased I did.
The pension was used as a way to keep officers in post. If you left early all you got back was what you supposedly paid in, without any interest. Yet officers still left, and in droves at one time. When unemployment goes up then the leaving rate drops so the pension works to that extent. We have a queue of suitable people wanting to join the police nowadays but that was hardly the norm in my time. The pension was featured high in the recruiting literature.
So the cost of the pension to the officer has to include the lack of other benefits available to people in a similar role in private industry, a lower wage because of the pension, the risk to the pension if someone wanted to move jobs, and the tremendous loss of value of the pension if an officer, for instance, was injured on duty to the extent that they were unable to work but would be likely to be able to work at an unspecified time in the future.
The pension with the credit card company included insurance for inability to work. Details now lost in the fog of time.
So compared to one job that required someone who had achieved the rank of Sargent and was deemed required head hunting to find a suitable candidate and your only example .....the pension offered to all police officers was slightly worse, I note not many police recruits are head hunted.
Shelsleyf2 said:
It does seem however that the police complaints commission is all about protecting the police...the number of deaths in custody that result in no significant action/prosecutions damages credibility and respect.
As I said, the CCTV in cell blocks was not so much welcomed as demanded by police officers. Normally, the reasons there are few prosecutions/discipline is that CCTV provides a welcome defence for the persons with responsibility for the prisoners.I remember once that a busy cell block had had cctv cameras installed and a blind spot was discovered. The force were reluctant to spend more money on a camera but the custody officers demanded it.
CCTV in cell blocks came at the same time as significant reduction in complaints of ill-treatment by officers. This could be because the officers knew that had to behave or, many officers suggested, because the offenders could not, normally under instruction, lie about what had happened to them in the cell block.
On top of that, and not mentioned by those who report on such matters, the police have been lumbered with responsibility for those who require specialised treatment. Many deaths are to those with severe mental problems or bad health and the police lack the ability, and the training, to be able to cope with any degree of professionalism.
Derek Smith said:
I had a number of dealings with foreign prisoners, those from certain civilised European countries which were held up as fine examples of probity 15 years ago. They were, almost to a man, shocked at how well they were treated over here. We have a
You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
My Dad was a public servant for 32 years, put in about 10% of his salary gross into a pension scheme! he gets £82 per week....much the same as you I'd imagine Derek. ??You blokes still working are, without a doubt, the most trustworthy and hardest working officers there have ever been in the service. I'd take my helmet off to you, but I've since retired to live on the gold plated pension that was given to me. And all I had to do was pay in 12%+ of my gross pay (in real terms) for 30 years for it.
Best of luck to you.
1 little sentence about a guy being murdered and his murder covered up, by Cops and 4 paragraphs about how well illegals were looked after.
On balance my experiences with coppers in my first 25 years on this planet were positive (which includes being a serviceman coming home during the miners strike) and the last 25 years were very negative.
Just my view of things.
Edited by ruff'n'smov on Thursday 20th November 21:29
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