Caught speeding - advice

Author
Discussion

Matt 211988

Original Poster:

223 posts

123 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
I've just returned home to find a notice of intended prosecution.
77mph in a 50mph (single carriageway)

can anyone advise on what the penalty is likely to be? (I already have 3 points for 86mph in a 70)

Do I fill the form in and just wait to see what is said or do i need to ask for evidence etc first? obviously I want to find out it was definately me first, or do i complete the form and ask for the evidence at the same time?

any other advise from legal folks on how I should proceed?

thanks
matt

JumboBeef

3,772 posts

176 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Did you do it? (The offence, that is).

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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Depends where it happened - assuming the force area has adopted the ACPO guidlines (see above) then you may expect a summons / requisition to court.

You should get the photographic evidence if possible - some forces (e.g. North Yorkshire) won't give it but most will. A request of this type doesn't put on hold the obligation to respond within the timeframe specified.

All courts in England and Wales use the following guidelines:



Some areas have local guidelines.

RyanTank

2,850 posts

153 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
was it you driving? I'm guessing so as you are asking the question. I believe you can ask for the photo of the offence and it will have the date & time of the offence, maybe even a picture of you/offenders mugshot.

22mph over the limit is the kicker, your not slightly over the limit there!

If it isn't you, ask for the pic, if it was you, get a decent solicitor and prepare to take the fine and points or worst case a short term ban.

speedking31

3,543 posts

135 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
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How long have you had your licence?

Matt 211988

Original Poster:

223 posts

123 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
thanks agtlaw.

any chance you can explain the band a fine, band b fine, starting point and range to me?
i guess band A is £60 fine and 3 points, band B £100 fine and 6 points?

If i am summoned to court, is it a fixed date I have to attend? (i work away and I can guarentee it would be during my time away frown )

you say that asking for the evidence doesnt postpone the time i have to respond to the notice, am i best off just sending the form back along with a request for evidence?

i've had my licence for, 7 years i think

GreatGranny

9,097 posts

225 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
Pretty sure its now min £100.

I would send it off asap.

You can plead guilty by post. Mate did this. It was years ago so not sure of the outcome. ie. if it meant a more harsh punishment.

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
If you're offered a fixed penalty then the case does not progress to court if you pay it on time, comply with the conditions, and are eligible. A fixed penalty for speeding is £100 and 3 penalty points.

If the case goes to court then you are no longer looking at a fixed penalty, as the court does not offer fixed penalties. You are fined according to your means.

Fine Band B has a starting point of 100% of relevant weekly income with a range of 75 – 125% of relevant weekly income.

"The expected approach is for a court to identify the description that most nearly matches the particular facts of the offence for which sentence is being imposed. This will identify a starting point from which the sentencer can depart to reflect aggravating or mitigating factors affecting the seriousness of the offence (beyond those contained in the description itself) to reach a provisional sentence.

The range is the bracket into which the provisional sentence will normally fall after having regard to factors which aggravate or mitigate the seriousness of the offence. The particular circumstances may, however, make it appropriate that the provisional sentence falls outside the range." SGC Magistrates' Court Guidelines.

The sentencing guidelines are based on a first-time offender who is found guilty after trial. You would generally be entitled to up to one-third credit for an early guilty plea. N.b. in England & Wales, credit does not apply to penalty points / disqualification.


agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
You may not have to attend court in person. Plead guilty by post. The case would be adjourned if the court was considering disqualification - when you would have to attend.

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Wednesday 26th November 2014
quotequote all
GreatGranny said:
Pretty sure its now min £100.

I would send it off asap.

You can plead guilty by post. Mate did this. It was years ago so not sure of the outcome. ie. if it meant a more harsh punishment.
Better strategy:

1. Request the photo/s. Wait for a reply. If you get it then have the photo/s examined.
2. Return the 172 form (driver details) within the timeframe specified. Don't rush to return it ASAP as suggested.


Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 26th November 22:50

Jim1556

1,771 posts

155 months

Monday 1st December 2014
quotequote all
I have a healthy respect for our BIB, but how can some forces refuse to give out basic evidence unless you go to court?

I was done last year (83 in a 70 A417 towards Birdlip - was trying to beat the friday rush hour on my then 180 mile weekly commute).

The NIP arrived (while I was away for the next week), stated my naughtiness and had a login and password so I could see the photo. Bang to rights, no argument, SAC offered and taken (load of ste but better than 3 points).

Why can't all forces do this? It would save a mountain of paperwork from people wanting to see evidence first! mad

Billyray911

1,072 posts

203 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
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Jim1556 said:
I have a healthy respect for our BIB, but how can some forces refuse to give out basic evidence unless you go to court?

I was done last year (83 in a 70 A417 towards Birdlip - was trying to beat the friday rush hour on my then 180 mile weekly commute).

The NIP arrived (while I was away for the next week), stated my naughtiness and had a login and password so I could see the photo. Bang to rights, no argument, SAC offered and taken (load of ste but better than 3 points).

Why can't all forces do this? It would save a mountain of paperwork from people wanting to see evidence first! mad
I suppose that it is dependent on how the evidence was gathered in the first place.Not all will be as a result of a fixed or mobile camera,where the footage has been recorded and can be available as you have mentioned above...

Terminator X

14,920 posts

203 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
quotequote all
GreatGranny said:
Pretty sure its now min £100.

I would send it off asap.

You can plead guilty by post. Mate did this. It was years ago so not sure of the outcome. ie. if it meant a more harsh punishment.
They will tear you a new ahole if you do that. Attend court if it ends up there imho.

TX.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
quotequote all
Jim1556 said:
I have a healthy respect for our BIB, but how can some forces refuse to give out basic evidence unless you go to court?
Simple. Because all the alternatives to going to court are, basically, you admitting guilt to avoid a prosecution. And, if you're guilty, you don't need to see the evidence.

If you're claiming you're not guilty - then you have a right to see the evidence, and the proper place for both sides to lay their evidence (and question the other side's evidence) is in court.

If, otoh, you know damn well you did it but just want to see if they can prove it before admitting it...

Jim1556

1,771 posts

155 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Simple. Because all the alternatives to going to court are, basically, you admitting guilt to avoid a prosecution. And, if you're guilty, you don't need to see the evidence.

If you're claiming you're not guilty - then you have a right to see the evidence, and the proper place for both sides to lay their evidence (and question the other side's evidence) is in court.

If, otoh, you know damn well you did it but just want to see if they can prove it before admitting it...
Perhaps I just want to be sure they've got my car and not some cloned one? They also do occassionally, make mistakes!

On that particular occassion, I knew I'd been there, over what I normally cruise at, if I hadn't, I'd have contested it and probably been penalised more through nothing more than fact/evidence checking! Plus, attending court means time off work, travel costs etc, depending on the distance, some people may just accept the FPN as it's cheaper and easier...

I get that some people will try to pull a fast one, but by supplying a photo, it eliminates most arguments immediately!

It's not like I'm asking them to spend money proving I was in the wrong, the system is already in place to provide the evidence and should be freely given!

Billyray911 said:
I suppose that it is dependent on how the evidence was gathered in the first place.Not all will be as a result of a fixed or mobile camera,where the footage has been recorded and can be available as you have mentioned above...
How else would it be attained? Fixed, mobile, video... All of which should be available to review.

Any more?

Edited by Jim1556 on Tuesday 2nd December 21:06

QBee

20,903 posts

143 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
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Sitting talking to someone who is in court on Friday for 73 in a 30 limit on a motorbike - presumably a ban is coming?

Dammit

3,790 posts

207 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
quotequote all
Well the table posted above doesn't actually go up to that speed - almost two and a half times the speed limit.

I'm going to guess that yes, a ban is likely.

Billyray911

1,072 posts

203 months

Tuesday 2nd December 2014
quotequote all
Jim1556 said:
How else would it be attained? Fixed, mobile, video... All of which should be available to review.

Any more?

Edited by Jim1556 on Tuesday 2nd December 21:06
Rightttt then...One example would be an Officer using a ProLaser.Obtaining a speed,distance and reg number,but the procedure hasn't been captured on video or photograph (such as is the case in for a dedicated "mobile"-safety partnership van or "fixed" method-Gatso,Truvelo etc etc) and the driver wasn't stopped at the time,to report and verbally NIP.
All of these examples may generate the same paperwork ie a posted notice of intended prosecution.

OdramaSwimLaden

1,971 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
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Terminator X said:
GreatGranny said:
Pretty sure its now min £100.

I would send it off asap.

You can plead guilty by post. Mate did this. It was years ago so not sure of the outcome. ie. if it meant a more harsh punishment.
They will tear you a new ahole if you do that. Attend court if it ends up there imho.

TX.
I have to agree.

I was caught doing 89 in a 60 earlier this year and with 6 points already on my license.

Turning up to court in person and presenting mitigating circumstances etc in person carries a lot of weight IMHO (although it really should not; magistrates are humans and make human decisions).

For what it's worth, I got a 14 day ban, a large fine and NO points. I'm pretty sure if I went for the yeah, I did it, do your worst, these are my mitigating circumstances, postal option it would have been way worse.

Op, my advice, again, FWIW, is turn up in person, plead your case (if there is one) or accept your guilt and the punishment, dress smartly and hope for the best.



Druid

1,312 posts

180 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
quotequote all
OdramaSwimLaden said:
For what it's worth, I got a 14 day ban, a large fine and NO points.
That's because you were banned.