Free VW insurance can't protect NCD. Options?
Discussion
silentbrown said:
Sheepshanks said:
The second paragraph makes sense with two active policies, but I would be gobsmacked if, on a single policy, the new insurer didn't try and knock the NCB back a couple of years if a claim was declared.
I think your NCB discount isn't affected, but the premium may get a loading because of the claim. If there's a claim of the free policy, then at next renewal in 2015 OP will tell his insurers that he has made a claim, but has max bonus as the policy he made the claim on wasn't the policy on which his bonus was being used.
Produce documents showing UP original policy was taken out with nil bonus, and produce proof of max ncb from 2014. This will not be an issue.
ging84 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Is this a new game. Arrange the above words into a meaningful sentence.
other than than i think i reads ok doesn't ?
Why would you stop driving just because you lose an eye? And how does it affect protected bonus. The whole thing was Eddie Izzardish.
the losing and eye and the having kids driving your car were unrelated
they were just 2 examples of thing which might all of a sudden make you much less likely to continue with you long standing claim free insurance record.
The bar fight one was a joke, but the kids being put on insurance however is a very common situation
they were just 2 examples of thing which might all of a sudden make you much less likely to continue with you long standing claim free insurance record.
The bar fight one was a joke, but the kids being put on insurance however is a very common situation
ging84 said:
the losing and eye and the having kids driving your car were unrelated
they were just 2 examples of thing which might all of a sudden make you much less likely to continue with you long standing claim free insurance record.
The bar fight one was a joke, but the kids being put on insurance however is a very common situation
Step away from the keyboard.they were just 2 examples of thing which might all of a sudden make you much less likely to continue with you long standing claim free insurance record.
The bar fight one was a joke, but the kids being put on insurance however is a very common situation
My younger son son used to work at Churchill whilst at uni. He always maintained that a protected NCB was useless and a rip. The basic premium will rise to reflect the increased perception of risk.
Also, a years free insurance must more than offset any trivial rise of premium in the event of a claim. Or am I being dim?
Also, a years free insurance must more than offset any trivial rise of premium in the event of a claim. Or am I being dim?
silentbrown said:
I think your NCB discount isn't affected, but the premium may get a loading because of the claim.
/\/\ This, also generally the NCD will be valid for two years if there is no insurance policy in force, so use the VW for the year, then insure with existing NCD from previous use. andygo said:
My younger son son used to work at Churchill whilst at uni. He always maintained that a protected NCB was useless and a rip. The basic premium will rise to reflect the increased perception of risk.
Also, a years free insurance must more than offset any trivial rise of premium in the event of a claim. Or am I being dim?
Not strictly accurate.Also, a years free insurance must more than offset any trivial rise of premium in the event of a claim. Or am I being dim?
For people who don't make a claim they will view it as dead money. If you do make a claim it will save you a fairly considerable amount of money, if you're unfortunate enough to have a couple of claims in a shortish period it will save you a serious amount of money.
MrsMiggins said:
The policy covering the UP will provide 0 ncd at renewal if a claim is made. The OP's OH will still have 10 years ncd from the other policy. She can have an accident a day while using the free cover and still buy her next policy with 10years ncd on it.
Look at it another way. I have 2 cars and 2 policies, both with 4 years ncd. I crash one car and lose 2 years ncd. I still have 4 years on the other. You don't lose ncd for making a claim if the ncd wasn't applied to the policy being claimed from.
you're having a laugh. Look at it another way. I have 2 cars and 2 policies, both with 4 years ncd. I crash one car and lose 2 years ncd. I still have 4 years on the other. You don't lose ncd for making a claim if the ncd wasn't applied to the policy being claimed from.
Here's the story at the renewal:
Insurer..Have you had any accidents in the last five years for which you were to blame?
Client..Yes, during the last year I have been rather accident-prone and have had 3 (choose a number) crashes with a total or £22,000 (choose an amount) claimed against my present insurer.
Insurer..Oh dear! You are quite a risk your premium will be £loads
Client..But my NCD lay dormant with another insurer for that 12 months so I want 10yrs NCD off that.
Insurer..That's nice, you are quite a risk so your premium will be £loads + loads more - NCD = £loads have a nice day. Hand over your cash.
Protected NCD is generally a scam. It is only protected with the insurer you are with and when you renew they will charge you whatever they want depending upon the risk you pose the insurer. That means effectively your discount is lost when you have an accident.
Edited by emmaT2014 on Wednesday 3rd December 19:27
emmaT2014 said:
you're having a laugh.
Here's the story at the renewal:
Insurer..Have you had any accidents in the last five years for which you were to blame?
Client..Yes, during the last year I have been rather accident-prone and have had 3 (choose a number) crashes with a total or £22,000 (choose an amount) claimed against my present insurer.
Insurer..Oh dear! You are quite a risk your premium will be £loads
Client..But my NCD lay dormant with another insurer for that 12 months so I want 10yrs NCD off that.
Insurer..That's nice, you are quite a risk so your premium will be £loads + loads more - NCD = £loads have a nice day. Hand over your cash.
Protected NCD is generally a scam. It is only protected with the insurer you are with and when you renew they will charge you whatever they want depending upon the risk you pose the insurer. That means effectively your discount is lost when you have an accident.
Nice rant, but not an iota of truth in it. Here's the story at the renewal:
Insurer..Have you had any accidents in the last five years for which you were to blame?
Client..Yes, during the last year I have been rather accident-prone and have had 3 (choose a number) crashes with a total or £22,000 (choose an amount) claimed against my present insurer.
Insurer..Oh dear! You are quite a risk your premium will be £loads
Client..But my NCD lay dormant with another insurer for that 12 months so I want 10yrs NCD off that.
Insurer..That's nice, you are quite a risk so your premium will be £loads + loads more - NCD = £loads have a nice day. Hand over your cash.
Protected NCD is generally a scam. It is only protected with the insurer you are with and when you renew they will charge you whatever they want depending upon the risk you pose the insurer. That means effectively your discount is lost when you have an accident.
Edited by emmaT2014 on Wednesday 3rd December 19:27
CardinalFang said:
so, consensus is that Blue & Twig are correct - get confirmation that my existing NCB won't lapse, don't use it on the freebie and save it for when I need a policy? Correct, or am I missing something..?
Yes, my wife and I insured a single shared car alternately for years to maintain both our NCD's. Every insurance company we went to would recognise it for 2 years, except direct line would do 3 if you were a returning customer.Check how long your current insurer will accept it, then you always have the option to go back to them.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nice rant, but not an iota of truth in it.
Really? My missus ran into the back of someone at walking pace a few years ago on an icy road just outside our house - it went against her and she ended up at fault with a crash value of around £1500. Despite having a protected no claims bonus, her premium soared at renewal time. Unless the risk profile for women driving diesel audi estates had suddenly soared over the previous twelve months, then the likelihood would appear to be that they weighted her premium such that even with the same percentage discount applied, it was still way more than they previously charged. I guess technically she was only exposed to 50% of the increase due to her protected bonus, but that would suggest that for someone with ten years NCD, her policy price had nearly doubled after her minimal accident (which in my opinion should have gone 50/50 anyway, given the other driver's sudden maneouver and the road conditions, but hey ho).
I think that was what the 'rant' was trying to say. Am I missing something? As quite honestly I've always thought it was naive to expect anything else.
offshorematt2 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nice rant, but not an iota of truth in it.
Really? My missus ran into the back of someone at walking pace a few years ago on an icy road just outside our house - it went against her and she ended up at fault with a crash value of around £1500. Despite having a protected no claims bonus, her premium soared at renewal time. Unless the risk profile for women driving diesel audi estates had suddenly soared over the previous twelve months, then the likelihood would appear to be that they weighted her premium such that even with the same percentage discount applied, it was still way more than they previously charged. I guess technically she was only exposed to 50% of the increase due to her protected bonus, but that would suggest that for someone with ten years NCD, her policy price had nearly doubled after her minimal accident (which in my opinion should have gone 50/50 anyway, given the other driver's sudden maneouver and the road conditions, but hey ho).
I think that was what the 'rant' was trying to say. Am I missing something? As quite honestly I've always thought it was naive to expect anything else.
There seems to be a feeling that following an accident, the insurers decide what premium they want and adjust the loading according to get it. That isn't true. They will have set loadings for accidents. You then get your ncb applied. If you've protected your bonus, you will pay less following a claim than if you hadn't. Although you may pay a fair bit more than last year.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
offshorematt2 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nice rant, but not an iota of truth in it.
Really? My missus ran into the back of someone at walking pace a few years ago on an icy road just outside our house - it went against her and she ended up at fault with a crash value of around £1500. Despite having a protected no claims bonus, her premium soared at renewal time. Unless the risk profile for women driving diesel audi estates had suddenly soared over the previous twelve months, then the likelihood would appear to be that they weighted her premium such that even with the same percentage discount applied, it was still way more than they previously charged. I guess technically she was only exposed to 50% of the increase due to her protected bonus, but that would suggest that for someone with ten years NCD, her policy price had nearly doubled after her minimal accident (which in my opinion should have gone 50/50 anyway, given the other driver's sudden maneouver and the road conditions, but hey ho).
I think that was what the 'rant' was trying to say. Am I missing something? As quite honestly I've always thought it was naive to expect anything else.
There seems to be a feeling that following an accident, the insurers decide what premium they want and adjust the loading according to get it. That isn't true. They will have set loadings for accidents. You then get your ncb applied. If you've protected your bonus, you will pay less following a claim than if you hadn't. Although you may pay a fair bit more than last year.
offshorematt2 said:
Yes, I understood that and thought I agreed it above; but her premium the following year was such that without any discount applied, it had near as dammit doubled. For a walking space fender bender of dubious fault, in poor conditions and after ten years of no accidents or endorsements...
They could have just whacked all the premiums up that year - it's certainly happened to me in the past and it happened to both my kids more recently. Bit of shopping around and you get back to a more acceptable premium.Anything is possible with car insurance premiums - they could have decided to add 100% loading to all at fault claims that mentioned ice, so they avoid policyholders who are known to go out in "poor conditions".
My missus hit a garden wall with her car and we claimed with LV=. She had guaranteed NCB protection - the claim that year didn't have any noticeable effect on the renewal premium.
dacouch said:
Not strictly accurate.
For people who don't make a claim they will view it as dead money. If you do make a claim it will save you a fairly considerable amount of money, if you're unfortunate enough to have a couple of claims in a shortish period it will save you a serious amount of money.
On that basis, anyone who doesn't claim in a year will view the entire premium as a waste of money! Hindsight, think of the money we could have saved if only we had 100% foresight.For people who don't make a claim they will view it as dead money. If you do make a claim it will save you a fairly considerable amount of money, if you're unfortunate enough to have a couple of claims in a shortish period it will save you a serious amount of money.
Here's an example to hopefully help explain a little how NCD works.
NCD discount %-age: 1 year - 10%, 2 - 30%, 3 - 50%, 4 - 60%, 5 - 70%; Base premium - £1000
Say for example you have 5 years NCD, you have a 70% discount on a base premium of £1000 = £300 gross premium. Your base premium is calculated using a combination of rating factors such as your age, postcode, and car insurance group. You make an at-fault claim during the policy year, and you lose 2 years NCD.
At the next renewal you only have 3 years NCD to use, so you have a 50% discount. However, your insurer has a 20% accident loading, so assuming that the base rate has not changed, you have a 50% discount on a base premium of £1200 = £600 gross premium. One at fault claim has wiped off 2 years of your NCD, and means that you need to have no at-fault accidents in the next 2 years to get back to 5 years NCD.
Had you decided to protect your NCD, your base premium would still go up (£1000 + 20% accident loading), however, you would still have your 70% discount. Premium at the next renewal is £1200 - 70% = £360 gross premium
That's a saving of £240 assuming NCD protection is free and that you're not paying interest on monthly instalments. Every insurer is different, but NCD protection is probably less than what you think so it's worth being quoted with and without to see the difference with your 3 best quotes. Most insurers offer it at 4 years NCD, some at 3 years, and typically you get 2 "lives" at 4 years NCD plus. You could call it an insurance on an insurance, but would you pay an excess waiver if you rented a car? It's an optional extra that's worth it.
Other things that affect your insurance such as points will have a set loading too e.g. 10% loading for 3 points, 30% loading for 6 points.
(Base premium + claims loading + points loading) * NCD discount = Gross Premium
NCD discount %-age: 1 year - 10%, 2 - 30%, 3 - 50%, 4 - 60%, 5 - 70%; Base premium - £1000
Say for example you have 5 years NCD, you have a 70% discount on a base premium of £1000 = £300 gross premium. Your base premium is calculated using a combination of rating factors such as your age, postcode, and car insurance group. You make an at-fault claim during the policy year, and you lose 2 years NCD.
At the next renewal you only have 3 years NCD to use, so you have a 50% discount. However, your insurer has a 20% accident loading, so assuming that the base rate has not changed, you have a 50% discount on a base premium of £1200 = £600 gross premium. One at fault claim has wiped off 2 years of your NCD, and means that you need to have no at-fault accidents in the next 2 years to get back to 5 years NCD.
Had you decided to protect your NCD, your base premium would still go up (£1000 + 20% accident loading), however, you would still have your 70% discount. Premium at the next renewal is £1200 - 70% = £360 gross premium
That's a saving of £240 assuming NCD protection is free and that you're not paying interest on monthly instalments. Every insurer is different, but NCD protection is probably less than what you think so it's worth being quoted with and without to see the difference with your 3 best quotes. Most insurers offer it at 4 years NCD, some at 3 years, and typically you get 2 "lives" at 4 years NCD plus. You could call it an insurance on an insurance, but would you pay an excess waiver if you rented a car? It's an optional extra that's worth it.
Other things that affect your insurance such as points will have a set loading too e.g. 10% loading for 3 points, 30% loading for 6 points.
(Base premium + claims loading + points loading) * NCD discount = Gross Premium
nice sums, although I can't believe that even the thickest of PH'ers don't get how the NCD calcs work.
The problem being reported I think is when the risk loading for having an accident is a high percentage. 20% makes the sums work out nicely. If the loading is 100%, 200%, 300% then that easily overwhelms the apparent effect of the NCB change.
It's just another example of how insurance companies are ripping us off every day. I can't believe I have just wasted £750 for another whole year without claims. What have the insurance companies ever done for me?
What we need is a super competitive price sensitive market, that would sort the barstewards out. Oh hang on.
Bert
The problem being reported I think is when the risk loading for having an accident is a high percentage. 20% makes the sums work out nicely. If the loading is 100%, 200%, 300% then that easily overwhelms the apparent effect of the NCB change.
It's just another example of how insurance companies are ripping us off every day. I can't believe I have just wasted £750 for another whole year without claims. What have the insurance companies ever done for me?
What we need is a super competitive price sensitive market, that would sort the barstewards out. Oh hang on.
Bert
BertBert said:
What have the insurance companies ever done for me?
Allowed you to drive with freedom, knowing that if you were to have an horrendous accident where you injured and killed people, you wouldn't lose your house and everything you've ever worked for.Allowed you to drive with freedom, knowing that if someone hits and seriously injures you, you will receive compensation so you won't lose your house and everything you've ever worked for.
On house insurance, it allows you to go out, knowing that if your house burns down, you'll get it rebuilt, and won't lose everything you've ever worked for.
If it weren't for insurance, you'd live a pretty miserable existence, constantly worried that one stroke of bad luck or misjudgement by you or someone else could have catastrophic financial implications.
But apart from giving you the freedom to live the normal life you take for granted, absolutely nothing. It's a complete rip off.
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