Notice of prosecution - continued

[Matt 211988]

further to my previous thread where I recieved a notice of intended prosecution for speeding
77mph in a 50mph single carriage way

I checked online for the calibration cert for the cleveland police speed camera, and there doesnt seem to be one?
The latest one is for 7th Jan 2013 to 7th jan 2014

here is the latest certificate
http://www.cleveland.police.uk/downloads/Publicati...

and here are the ones on their website
http://www.cleveland.police.uk/about-us/certificat...

I dont know if the camera numbers match but these are the only cal certs I can find.

can anyone see one that i have missed?
If there isnt an up to date calibration cert, how do i proceed with the situation?

Thanks
Matt

Edited by Matt 211988 on Friday 5th December 13:33

Edited by Matt 211988 on Saturday 6th December 09:21

[scrwright]

From the last thread you look like you are in the limits of a band A fine/points, so were you speeding?

[covboy]

Can't for the life of me think why they picked on that particular car !

[SLCZ3]

Hmm, looks like you crested a rise in the road and having a low slung one would"nt have seen the scamera early enough, shame the second pic does"nt have the distance or you could have calculated the speed.

[7db]

Good shot by the camera operator - a bit of a wiggle over that crest and he'd have missed you altogether.

What happens if you turn around and scarper when you spot them so there's no chance to do the close-up reg shot? Can they resolve it on the long view?

[TooMany2cvs]

Matt 211988 said:

further to my previous thread where I recieved a notice of intended prosecution for speeding
77mph in a 50mph single carriage way

And were you?

Matt 211988 said:

I received the photographic evidence, here

I think we can rule out a clone...

Matt 211988 said:

If there isnt an up to date calibration cert, how do i proceed with the situation?

You fill the form in, say "Yes, I was driving", then when you get the offer of points/course, you say "Thanks, but no thanks, because we're going to court over this one, chaps."

Good luck with that.

[Matt 211988]

yes, very unlikely to be a clone :P

could there be a chance that they just havent updated the website?
I had rang the cleveland police ticket office and asked for a copy and they told me the certs were on the website, which is when i found that one above

[scrwright]

were you speeding?? if not, fair enough, chase em down on a dodgy calibrated camera

If you were, MTFU and take the points or awareness course.

[Boosted LS1]

scrwright said:

were you speeding?? if not, fair enough, chase em down on a dodgy calibrated camera

If you were, MTFU and take the points or awareness course.

Why should he? It's for the prosecution to determine he was speeding and to do that they should use calibrated equipment. No way would I roll over and take their freebies.

[scrwright]

Hence I asked was he speeding?

[silentbrown]

scrwright said:

If you were, MTFU and take the points or awareness course.

77 in a 50? No chance of that



Surely this should be a sticky???

[kiethton]

Over a crest....sneaky as normal.

Tip which worked for me for years.....take the front plate off, especially on that....given me the opportunity to reverse away and go the long way around a few times now.

Admittedly I don't have it off now as I do sub 3k miles a year but before web doing 30k a year I had it off for about 2 years, got pulled over twice for it "sorry officer it fell off, it's here in the footwell and must have fallen off the dash"

Worst case it's a non-endorseable small fine

[TooMany2cvs]

Boosted LS1 said:

Why should he? It's for the prosecution to determine he was speeding and to do that they should use calibrated equipment. No way would I roll over and take their freebies.

Not quite. If he takes it to court, then it's for the magistrate to determine if he was exceeding the speed limit, based on the case produced by the prosecution and whether the defence can introduce reasonable doubt into that case.

Yes, the equipment should be calibrated - and, frankly, probably is. Given the choice between whether they've forgotten to calibrate it or forgotten to get the certificate onto their public website, I know which I think more likely.

But would the equipment being uncalibrated raise reasonable doubt into whether he was exceeding 50mph or not? It's not as if the photos say 52mph. They say 77mph - more than 50% above the limit. There are multiple photos - possibly video, from which those are stills. Did he cover that 289m in much less than the 13sec it would take at 50mph?

For the sake of three points and £100 - or £85 and a morning of tea and biscuits - would YOU gamble a bigger fine, costs and more points based on those odds...? Mebbe if there's a ban hinging on it - but, if so, would 77 in a 50 in a lime green seven-a-like have been a wise use of a morning in the first place?

[scrwright]

silentbrown said:

77 in a 50? No chance of that

Surely this should be a sticky???

In the other thread the graph showed different figures,okay, rechecked, going to be a 3pointer, but going before a grumpy mage could lead to more.

Edited by scrwright on Friday 5th December 17:41

[silentbrown]

scrwright said:

going to be a 3pointer

Your pic shows it as 6 or potential disqual...

[TooMany2cvs]

kiethton said:

Tip which worked for me for years.....take the front plate off, especially on that....given me the opportunity to reverse away and go the long way around a few times now.

Worst case it's a non-endorseable small fine

Nope - worst case is that it's perverting the course of justice, Mr Huhne.

[scrwright]

sorry yes, 50mph not nsl.

[aw51 121565]

Matt 211988 said:

further to my previous thread where I recieved a notice of intended prosecution for speeding

...

If there isnt an up to date calibration cert, how do i proceed with the situation?

Thanks
Matt

Edited by Matt 211988 on Friday 5th December 13:33

Regardless of what you do, I'd suggest that you remove those pics, "wash" them of all data (the info in the black boxes) and link to the 'washed' photos. Possibly that ship has already sailed, mind...

And in future, "wash" the pics before you post them for the first time .

If this goes to court and you start arguing about a lack of calibration cert, I suspect this thread may make an unwelcome appearance... Going that way is potentially very expensive - being found guilty after a 'not guilty' plea incurs prosecution costs of around £500 to £600 before the fine and 'victim surcharge' plus penalty points.

The untimate insult will be if you plead 'not guilty' and the prosecution bring in RSS (you might even get to meet one of our members on their "dream team" ), you'll be looking at costs just north of £2k for their attendance plus the rest (as above) after being found guilty... This would normally happen only after your defence suggests that the equipment used is unreliable or used wrongly, things like that...

Tread carefully .

You're looking at a summons for 77 in a 50, anyway.

[wca]

Just got a NIP letter this morning and this thread seems frighteningly relevant.

Will start a separate thread as I am after a good Brief in the Southampton area.

[Boosted LS1]

TooMany2cvs said:

Not quite. If he takes it to court, then it's for the magistrate to determine if he was exceeding the speed limit, based on the case produced by the prosecution and whether the defence can introduce reasonable doubt into that case.

Yes, the equipment should be calibrated - and, frankly, probably is. Given the choice between whether they've forgotten to calibrate it or forgotten to get the certificate onto their public website, I know which I think more likely.

But would the equipment being uncalibrated raise reasonable doubt into whether he was exceeding 50mph or not? It's not as if the photos say 52mph. They say 77mph - more than 50% above the limit. There are multiple photos - possibly video, from which those are stills. Did he cover that 289m in much less than the 13sec it would take at 50mph?

For the sake of three points and £100 - or £85 and a morning of tea and biscuits - would YOU gamble a bigger fine, costs and more points based on those odds...? Mebbe if there's a ban hinging on it - but, if so, would 77 in a 50 in a lime green seven-a-like have been a wise use of a morning in the first place?

Yep, I'd make them prove it and that's why I've not had points on my DL since 1980.