3 points and 100 fine for tyre on 1.5.7
Discussion
ging84 said:
i disagree, i would say 1.57mm is equal to 1.6mm
it is certainly less than 1.60mm but without a stated tolerance it is generally assumed to be +/- 0.5 of the last digit quoted, and 1.57 i well within that tolerance
Please show the regulations that officially state that there is any sort of tolerance on the 1.6mm tread limit as this is the first I've ever heard of it!it is certainly less than 1.60mm but without a stated tolerance it is generally assumed to be +/- 0.5 of the last digit quoted, and 1.57 i well within that tolerance
As Far as I've ever been aware (since passing My test the best part of 30 years ago), the limit is 1.6mm with no tolerance at all.
Here's how I've always understood the tyre Law to work:
Depth of tread across the centre 75% of the width of the tyre:
1.57mm = Illegal
1.58mm = Illegal
1.59mm = Illegal
1.6mm = Legal
1.60mm = Legal
1.61mm = Legal
Etc., etc.
As I say, you seem to know different so please post a link to the official tolerance.
4rephill said:
Please show the regulations that officially state that there is any sort of tolerance on the 1.6mm tread limit as this is the first I've ever heard of it!
As Far as I've ever been aware (since passing My test the best part of 30 years ago), the limit is 1.6mm with no tolerance at all.
Here's how I've always understood the tyre Law to work:
Depth of tread across the centre 75% of the width of the tyre:
1.57mm = Illegal
1.58mm = Illegal
1.59mm = Illegal
1.6mm = Legal
1.60mm = Legal
1.61mm = Legal
Etc., etc.
As I say, you seem to know different so please post a link to the official tolerance.
There is no stated tolerance i already said that and it is my whole point, you are saying that there should be zero tolerance, show me where it states that As Far as I've ever been aware (since passing My test the best part of 30 years ago), the limit is 1.6mm with no tolerance at all.
Here's how I've always understood the tyre Law to work:
Depth of tread across the centre 75% of the width of the tyre:
1.57mm = Illegal
1.58mm = Illegal
1.59mm = Illegal
1.6mm = Legal
1.60mm = Legal
1.61mm = Legal
Etc., etc.
As I say, you seem to know different so please post a link to the official tolerance.
Do you also believe that the legislation on speed limits intends that anyone who ever momentarily travels at 30.1 in a 30 zone ot 70.1 in a 70 should be penalised ?
Because the acpo disagree, and feel a reasonably generous margin of 10% should be given, then another 2mph for the measurement device tolerance, do you feel this goes against the spirit of the legislation and that the police should take a much harder line approach and slash it to just the 2mph device tolerance allowed before issuing a ticket ?
You're confusing legal limits with what actually gets prosecuted. Driving a car at 71mph is not legal, but you're unlikely to get prosecuted for it, for any number of reasons.
Tyres would be the same. The limit will be 1.6mm not 1.55mm. Below this your tyre is not legal. What's highly arguable, as you say, is the accuracy of the measurement.
But as the OP doesn't seem to understand what a decimal point is, we're all guessing!
Tyres would be the same. The limit will be 1.6mm not 1.55mm. Below this your tyre is not legal. What's highly arguable, as you say, is the accuracy of the measurement.
But as the OP doesn't seem to understand what a decimal point is, we're all guessing!
Assuming you lot haven't scared him off and the OP comes back and reads this... :P
Getting down to brass tacks, you're probably not going to be able to prove the tyre is legal at this stage as the police have examined the offending tyre and judged it to be illegal using what I think we can assume is an evidential form of readout. Assuming it is still on the car and you have driven away from the scene, you could now easily swap it with another tyre and have this validated as legal rather than the offending tyre (unless the police took pics of the serial number, etc. on the tyre).
Taking what you say at face value (and it is possible the tyre was illegal for other reasons such as gouges in the sidewall, cord showing, etc.), it is so close to being illegal anyway that what a smart person would do is put this down to experience and change their tyres when they get down to around 3mm as beyond that, tyres get very poor results in winter weather and good drivers care about the performance of their tyres.
It's maybe also worth evaluating what made them pull you over, the police generally don't just pull peoople over for nothing. Maybe they saw you were up to something earlier in the day/evening or your car has a marker for anti-social?
Anyway. it's just not worth taking it to a court of law and potentially getting a worse penalty.
I am obviously not a lawyer and it is perfectly legal to drive on tyres between 1.6 and 3mm so feel free to disregard what I'm saying but I think it's a hiding to nothing trying to prove the tyre is legal.
Please take the above as kind (although perhaps a bit blunt) words of advice and not criticism.
Getting down to brass tacks, you're probably not going to be able to prove the tyre is legal at this stage as the police have examined the offending tyre and judged it to be illegal using what I think we can assume is an evidential form of readout. Assuming it is still on the car and you have driven away from the scene, you could now easily swap it with another tyre and have this validated as legal rather than the offending tyre (unless the police took pics of the serial number, etc. on the tyre).
Taking what you say at face value (and it is possible the tyre was illegal for other reasons such as gouges in the sidewall, cord showing, etc.), it is so close to being illegal anyway that what a smart person would do is put this down to experience and change their tyres when they get down to around 3mm as beyond that, tyres get very poor results in winter weather and good drivers care about the performance of their tyres.
It's maybe also worth evaluating what made them pull you over, the police generally don't just pull peoople over for nothing. Maybe they saw you were up to something earlier in the day/evening or your car has a marker for anti-social?
Anyway. it's just not worth taking it to a court of law and potentially getting a worse penalty.
I am obviously not a lawyer and it is perfectly legal to drive on tyres between 1.6 and 3mm so feel free to disregard what I'm saying but I think it's a hiding to nothing trying to prove the tyre is legal.
Please take the above as kind (although perhaps a bit blunt) words of advice and not criticism.
rallycross said:
Go to a tyre shop and get them measured properly then either accept it or argue your case if it turns out to be legal.
(IANAL).I'd suggest that without any evidence of the tyre ( number etc, as I believe tyres carry an ID number), any measurement later on would be meaningless. However, as others have mentioned- cop was looking (possibly on instructions for the night) to stop /challenge/educate young drivers. He saw a young driver ,who tried to hide. they checked your tyres and found one a bit iffy. Your cue to say you thought one/more might be close to limit( but you found the regulations very confusing), and you intended to get them checked/new ones tomorrow, and can I change for spare. Then I suspect PC would have road guarded you and made sure you did things safe ,and then educated you in tyre safety. Unless of course ,you'd got an officious one.
blueg33 said:
But, if we are taking the OP at face value (and can do nothing else) one of the officers potentially had an attitude problem, which is unacceptable. There is no way that the Police can expect respect is they don't show it.
If this is the case then I would do the following:
1. get a written statement from an MOT centre to say that the tyre was legal (if it was illegal then you are looking at points)
2. make a formal complaint about the behaviour of the officer (I think that the cars are equpped with recording equipment)
How would OP prove that the tyre being checked by the MOT centre is the same tyre that the Police said was illegal?If this is the case then I would do the following:
1. get a written statement from an MOT centre to say that the tyre was legal (if it was illegal then you are looking at points)
2. make a formal complaint about the behaviour of the officer (I think that the cars are equpped with recording equipment)
Countdown said:
How would OP prove that the tyre being checked by the MOT centre is the same tyre that the Police said was illegal?
As I said- very difficult without either vehicle going directly to TYRE place /MOT centre,or the tyre ID being noted at the time and a copy given to the OP.Might be one for our resident legal eagles to contemplate. Paul Dishman said:
WinstonWolf said:
I'd say your biggest problem was failing the attitude test. The correct answer is "Yes Sir, no Sir, three bags full" etc.
Absolutely, the OP has talked himself into a ticket
ks. Treat the officer with respect, yes, but don't get down on your hands knees crying like a little liberal. Have some dignity people. OP, an mot station is where you need to go, preferably one that sells tyres.
If they will state in writing your tyre would pass an mot, you're home and dry I guess, if they won't suck it up, as you'll have no choice.
At 20 you may feel they're out to get you, but in general they aren't.
Stay calm and polite, a little bit of "yes sir , no sir", will go a long way, they hold the office of Constable and you must respect that, even if you think that particular copper is an arse.
I can't really offer any better advice than if you play the young "ned" as they say ooop north, they will generally win.
Most of us have been there at one time or another.
I'm of the opinion that if you youngsters had to do the "yes sir, no sir" stuff at school, you'd find life a lot simpler when you grow up, and despite the fact you are only young, you are actually a grown man, people two years younger than you are fighting for the Country in Afghanistan for example.
Or ....... you'll learn the hard way.
(And they can stop who they want, when they want, they have that power).
If they will state in writing your tyre would pass an mot, you're home and dry I guess, if they won't suck it up, as you'll have no choice.
At 20 you may feel they're out to get you, but in general they aren't.
Stay calm and polite, a little bit of "yes sir , no sir", will go a long way, they hold the office of Constable and you must respect that, even if you think that particular copper is an arse.
I can't really offer any better advice than if you play the young "ned" as they say ooop north, they will generally win.
Most of us have been there at one time or another.
I'm of the opinion that if you youngsters had to do the "yes sir, no sir" stuff at school, you'd find life a lot simpler when you grow up, and despite the fact you are only young, you are actually a grown man, people two years younger than you are fighting for the Country in Afghanistan for example.
Or ....... you'll learn the hard way.
(And they can stop who they want, when they want, they have that power).
mygoldfishbowl said:
Yes,, but I always fail the "attitude test" there is no way that I will grovel & apologise for what I have done. If I've broken the law then I've broken the law & I have to deal with it. I hate this "attitude test" bks. Treat the officer with respect, yes, but don't get down on your hands knees crying like a little liberal. Have some dignity people.
Hear hear! ks. Treat the officer with respect, yes, but don't get down on your hands knees crying like a little liberal. Have some dignity people. Respect where it's due, but a w
ker of a copper is going to get the same treatment as any other wker, but purely because this wker can arrest me, it'll be toned down a notch or 4.Most police I have encountered have been respectful and reasonable, but in my early driving years, I did get lots of tugs, purely because modified fiesta.
If I have done wrong, I'll admit it and apologise, but no grovelling from me.
ORD said:
They deserve respect because they are the f+cking police and are doing their job. Jesus wept. What a country we now live in. The police do not have to earn your respect, especially not when you are breaking the law, trying to hide it and then behaving like a child.
Are you having a laugh?A police officer is a person doing their job - correct, however they are empowered beyond the norm and should act accordingly. They don't deserve respect just because they wear a uniform, they earn respect because they respect the powers they're given by accepting the job and serve the public interest accordingly.
There are plenty of d
heads about and the OP may well be one of them, that doesn't mean that the officers COMMAND respect, they have to earn it through their actions like anybody else.There's respect for the law from a public perspective the same as there's respect for the law from from a government employee perspective, both of which involve humans and egos, and are fundamentally flawed.
That aside, the OP made f
k all sense to me and if you're going to duck down an alley nest time make sure you ditch the stolen motor and run... you look as dodgy as fk.blueg33 said:
Thats a load of bks. Using that logic you would sy that the Gestapo deserved respect, or that the the Stasi deserved respect. Why do you think that there is all the grief in y=th eUS at the moment about the way the police have acted?
Just because someone wears a uniform they do not automatically get te right to be a dhead. Sadly many seem to think that they do.
In summary... what he said ks. Using that logic you would sy that the Gestapo deserved respect, or that the the Stasi deserved respect. Why do you think that there is all the grief in y=th eUS at the moment about the way the police have acted?Just because someone wears a uniform they do not automatically get te right to be a d
head. Sadly many seem to think that they do.
ging84 said:
what we are talking about here is 30 microns under the limit
No we aren't.All of those discussing the finer points of decimalisation and rounding; One of the readings was at less than 1.3mm, and another was just below 1.6mm, we have no idea at what points on the tyre these measurements were taken but are we really to believe that this tyre could have possibly had more than 1.6mm tread depth over 75% of it's width and it's entire circumference?
No sympathy at all for people who drive unroadworthy cars and even less for people who get all shirty when they get pulled up on it.
You're all assuming that the Policeman knows how to measure tyre tread, which may seem quite straight forward, but in my experience they don't know the difference between primary and secondary grooves and end up taking a measurement on a higher part of the tyre which is designed to wear out first. If this higher part of the tyre was only 0.5mm higher, that would make the tyre legal.
Taking the reading to two decimal places is over the top, the majority of the approved MOT tread depth gauges in use are analogue and only measure to one decimal place.
Taking the reading to two decimal places is over the top, the majority of the approved MOT tread depth gauges in use are analogue and only measure to one decimal place.
I've got some slight sympathy for the OP regarding the police attitude, but as I replace tyres when they get old or wear unevenly..... That's where sympathy ends. The 1.6mm limit is so bloody obviously worn out, you cannot fail to see it is knackered. Tyres look crap at 3mm, and it takes ages to wear them down to bald. Infact I don't often run to 3mm as they are usually handling quite poorly by then and wheelspinning a lot or skidding.
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