speeding m25 jct 5
Discussion
Landshark said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
emmaT2014 said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
FurryExocet said:
The national speed limit
Scaremongering. Edit.. I don't know what it is but this is what it isn't.. 70, 80, 90.
Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Friday 12th December 22:56
Landshark said:
supermono said:
FurryExocet said:
too many people have issues with the Police that help out on this forum.
Load of stuff about getting given a ticket for speedingAppropriate speed is what it's all about for me.
Although unfortunately we no longer have the benefit of that distinctive headlight and sidelight pattern of a Rover P6 that was so easily identifiable at least 100 yards behind in the mirrors at night during the 1970's.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Saturday 13th December 02:19
XJ Flyer said:
Traffic police are marginally better at least in the case of using marked cars not unmarked ones so they can be easily noticed and 'respected' accordingly by not taking liberties.'Not taking liberties' in this case ( hopefully ) being reciprocated in a bit/lot more flexibility by the law,in applying a realistic motorway speed regime,that acknowledges the advantages in safety and lane use provided by decent speed differentials.Than that provided by cameras.
Although unfortunately we no longer have the benefit of that distinctive headlight and sidelight pattern of a Rover P6 that was so easily identifiable at least 100 yards behind in the mirrors at night during the 1970's.
My feeling these days is that we're probably better off without too many marked traffic Police on the motorway cruising at 70mph and causing a long tailback behind.Although unfortunately we no longer have the benefit of that distinctive headlight and sidelight pattern of a Rover P6 that was so easily identifiable at least 100 yards behind in the mirrors at night during the 1970's.
Cameras are also not an ideal solution. I'm now finding a lot of drivers motoring along at say 80-85mph are braking just before gantries to get down to 70, whether they have cameras installed in them or not. Motorists are just getting more and more jumpy because they fear they're going to get a NIP for going over 70mph.
The strategy seems to be to spread FUD in the hope everyone will just drive along at 65-70mph all the time, but this isn't what happens.
Sensible policing with unmarked cars could be the answer. What I mean by that is a PR campaign informing everyone that bad, selfish and dangerous driving won't be tolerated but driving a few mph over the limit will be ignored if done in a safe manner in good conditions. That way we might find motorists start respecting the Police again and will act in a responsible manner accordingly. I know it won't happen, because "speed kills", of course.
For now, I'll be relying on my Valentine One and Mk.1 Eyeballs and will continue to make progress where it's safe to do so. I'll no doubt get a few blue strobes from behind the front grill of an unmarked car every now and then as a friendly warning, which is the best way to earn my respect if I'm not doing anything worthy of a pull.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Proof?
What proof do you want? When there is no variable limit in place, they enforce the national speed limit? (Regardless of what speed the camera is set to activate at)I was traveling along the M25 the other night between 8 and 9, I was doing around 70 and was passed by a Saab going a fair bit quicker, he got flashed by the cameras. No idea if he'll get a ticket, but the cameras are active.
It's your choice what speed you travel at on the motorway, but for me, I like to keep my licence
And for the record, I'm not Traffic and I've never given out a speeding ticket on the motorway
supermono said:
FurryExocet said:
too many people have issues with the Police that help out on this forum.
To be fair, many of us started out with respect for the police but when you attack safe, courteous drivers who just happen to be showing the wrong number on their speedo, and then cause them to stop on the hard shoulder under extreme danger after a jolly good bit of speeding yoursef to catch them, then drone patronisingly about how dangerous they were, that's just plain embarrassing yourselves.You earn respect or in this case you throw it away. Just look at the wannabe TV stars chest puffing and feel ashamed.
I don't know you personally but there's no mystery why we have issues with traffic police in general.
Foppo said:
supermono said:
FurryExocet said:
too many people have issues with the Police that help out on this forum.
To be fair, many of us started out with respect for the police but when you attack safe, courteous drivers who just happen to be showing the wrong number on their speedo, and then cause them to stop on the hard shoulder under extreme danger after a jolly good bit of speeding yoursef to catch them, then drone patronisingly about how dangerous they were, that's just plain embarrassing yourselves.You earn respect or in this case you throw it away. Just look at the wannabe TV stars chest puffing and feel ashamed.
I don't know you personally but there's no mystery why we have issues with traffic police in general.
Foppo said:
Traffic police stop is quarantee a ticket for speeding.That is why there is no mystery for disliking these lads and lasses.
OK, so in 7 1/2 years I think I gave out maybe 5 speeding tickets - always for over double the limit. I chose instead to give tickets to those who insisted on using mobile phone and had no insurance ! I have moved on now but can tell you that for most traffic cops speeding tickets are bottom of the pile.
FurryExocet said:
What proof do you want? When there is no variable limit in place, they enforce the national speed limit? (Regardless of what speed the camera is set to activate at)
I was traveling along the M25 the other night between 8 and 9, I was doing around 70 and was passed by a Saab going a fair bit quicker, he got flashed by the cameras. No idea if he'll get a ticket, but the cameras are active.
It's your choice what speed you travel at on the motorway, but for me, I like to keep my licence
And for the record, I'm not Traffic and I've never given out a speeding ticket on the motorway
My apologies I was a bit rude the other night, Christmas do, many beers etc.I was traveling along the M25 the other night between 8 and 9, I was doing around 70 and was passed by a Saab going a fair bit quicker, he got flashed by the cameras. No idea if he'll get a ticket, but the cameras are active.
It's your choice what speed you travel at on the motorway, but for me, I like to keep my licence
And for the record, I'm not Traffic and I've never given out a speeding ticket on the motorway
This is only my opinion on this. When new cameras are installed as part of a managed motorway they will be rigorously tested for a period of time before & possibly after they go live, hence all the threads with people getting flashed at lower speeds but never receiving a nip.
Then after they go live occasionally someone will receive the odd nip like the op. I have only seen evidence of two such nips from the new managed section of the M5 for example, of course there may be more but people certainly aren't reporting nips for 79ish in their droves.
I believe it's the same as the M25 where we may see a few nips for higher speeds but none for lower speeds. Then I believe either the systems some how settle down or maybe the trigger speed is finally set & we will not here about any more nips when no limit is displayed unless maybe when people are well into three figures.
When cameras around the south west section of the M25 first went live some years ago I remember hearing about the trigger speed being somewhere in the nineties when no limit was displayed. After some time that was proved to be incorrect.
They are certainly not enforcing the nsl at the moment but there is obviously currently a higher trigger speed, hence the op.
Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 12:14
mygoldfishbowl said:
I believe it's the same as the M25 the trigger speed is finally set & we will not here about any more nips when no limit is displayed unless maybe when people are well into three figures.
As I said it is that logic which explains most of the so called 'lane hogging' issues.IE people who ( rightly ) view that idea as total madness and thereby trying to overtake traffic,running at 65 mph in lanes 2/3,at 75 mph in lane 3/4,being branded as 'lane hoggers' by those who think the margin for prosecution doesn't start until 100 mph +. Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 12:14
XJ Flyer said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
I believe it's the same as the M25 the trigger speed is finally set & we will not here about any more nips when no limit is displayed unless maybe when people are well into three figures.
As I said it is that logic which explains most of the so called 'lane hogging' issues.IE people who ( rightly ) view that idea as total madness and thereby trying to overtake traffic,running at 65 mph in lanes 2/3,at 75 mph in lane 3/4,being branded as 'lane hoggers' by those who think the margin for prosecution doesn't start until 100 mph +. Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 12:14
mygoldfishbowl said:
XJ Flyer said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
I believe it's the same as the M25 the trigger speed is finally set & we will not here about any more nips when no limit is displayed unless maybe when people are well into three figures.
As I said it is that logic which explains most of the so called 'lane hogging' issues.IE people who ( rightly ) view that idea as total madness and thereby trying to overtake traffic,running at 65 mph in lanes 2/3,at 75 mph in lane 3/4,being branded as 'lane hoggers' by those who think the margin for prosecution doesn't start until 100 mph +. Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 12:14
As for the evidence it is just a question of wether anyone wishes to test those margins by actually driving through a camera ( or for that matter overtake an unmarked law car ) at 100 mph +.On that basis unfortunately I'll just have to be seen as one of the 'lane hoggers' when overtaking at a ridiculously enforced,not chosen,low speed differential.
mygoldfishbowl said:
FurryExocet said:
What proof do you want? When there is no variable limit in place, they enforce the national speed limit? (Regardless of what speed the camera is set to activate at)
I was traveling along the M25 the other night between 8 and 9, I was doing around 70 and was passed by a Saab going a fair bit quicker, he got flashed by the cameras. No idea if he'll get a ticket, but the cameras are active.
It's your choice what speed you travel at on the motorway, but for me, I like to keep my licence
And for the record, I'm not Traffic and I've never given out a speeding ticket on the motorway
My apologies I was a bit rude the other night, Christmas do, many beers etc.I was traveling along the M25 the other night between 8 and 9, I was doing around 70 and was passed by a Saab going a fair bit quicker, he got flashed by the cameras. No idea if he'll get a ticket, but the cameras are active.
It's your choice what speed you travel at on the motorway, but for me, I like to keep my licence
And for the record, I'm not Traffic and I've never given out a speeding ticket on the motorway
This is only my opinion on this. When new cameras are installed as part of a managed motorway they will be rigorously tested for a period of time before & possibly after they go live, hence all the threads with people getting flashed at lower speeds but never receiving a nip.
Then after they go live occasionally someone will receive the odd nip like the op. I have only seen evidence of two such nips from the new managed section of the M5 for example, of course there may be more but people certainly aren't reporting nips for 79ish in their droves.
I believe it's the same as the M25 where we may see a few nips for higher speeds but none for lower speeds. Then I believe either the systems some how settle down or maybe the trigger speed is finally set & we will not here about any more nips when no limit is displayed unless maybe when people are well into three figures.
When cameras around the south west section of the M25 first went live some years ago I remember hearing about the trigger speed being somewhere in the nineties when no limit was displayed. After some time that was proved to be incorrect.
They are certainly not enforcing the nsl at the moment but there is obviously currently a higher trigger speed, hence the op.
Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 12:14
XJ Flyer said:
The problem is that the 'perception' of a lane hogger is too often a case of just running at a speed less than they'd prefer to,with regard to the limit and its enforcement,while overtaking and someone behind wishing to run at a higher speed having made their own ( higher ) interpretation of prosecution tolerances and margins.Especially when that 'interpretation' translates as 3 figure speeds being seen as an acceptable margin.In which case absolutely it is quite likely that many of those running at that type of speed ,under that impression,would probably have a higher perception of those ahead hogging the overtaking lanes.When the real problem is the limit,its strict enforcement and the misapprehension of many that the enforcement threshold in question has a much wider tolerance and margin than is actually the case.
As for the evidence it is just a question of wether anyone wishes to test those margins by actually driving through a camera ( or for that matter overtake an unmarked law car ) at 100 mph +.On that basis unfortunately I'll just have to be seen as one of the 'lane hoggers' when overtaking at a ridiculously enforced,not chosen,low speed differential.
But there is no misapprehension. No one is getting tickets for 79 on the M25 so where is the misapprehension that the enforcement threshold in question has a much wider tolerance and margin than is actually the case? As for the evidence it is just a question of wether anyone wishes to test those margins by actually driving through a camera ( or for that matter overtake an unmarked law car ) at 100 mph +.On that basis unfortunately I'll just have to be seen as one of the 'lane hoggers' when overtaking at a ridiculously enforced,not chosen,low speed differential.
We're talking about the M25 managed sections & not marked or unmarked police cars & I never implied that three figure speeds are acceptable. All I've said is, the nsl is not being enforced by cameras. As for evidence I wonder how many thousands of people drive past these cameras above the nsl on a daily basis with nothing happening. Where are all the people complaining of nips for 79, 80, 81 etc. etc.
emmaT2014 said:
They certainly are enforcing NSL and trigger speeds are not unusually high.
Great. Firstly can you show us any evidence to support your claim? Secondly, what's high? If they are enforcing the nsl then the trigger speed will be 79* or a few above maybe. Is 79 high or is 89 high. Using the word high to describe speed leaves a lot to interpretation.Edited. *For vehicles with a nsl of 70 before the pedants arrive.
Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 23:54
mygoldfishbowl said:
XJ Flyer said:
The problem is that the 'perception' of a lane hogger is too often a case of just running at a speed less than they'd prefer to,with regard to the limit and its enforcement,while overtaking and someone behind wishing to run at a higher speed having made their own ( higher ) interpretation of prosecution tolerances and margins.Especially when that 'interpretation' translates as 3 figure speeds being seen as an acceptable margin.In which case absolutely it is quite likely that many of those running at that type of speed ,under that impression,would probably have a higher perception of those ahead hogging the overtaking lanes.When the real problem is the limit,its strict enforcement and the misapprehension of many that the enforcement threshold in question has a much wider tolerance and margin than is actually the case.
As for the evidence it is just a question of wether anyone wishes to test those margins by actually driving through a camera ( or for that matter overtake an unmarked law car ) at 100 mph +.On that basis unfortunately I'll just have to be seen as one of the 'lane hoggers' when overtaking at a ridiculously enforced,not chosen,low speed differential.
But there is no misapprehension. No one is getting tickets for 79 on the M25 so where is the misapprehension that the enforcement threshold in question has a much wider tolerance and margin than is actually the case? As for the evidence it is just a question of wether anyone wishes to test those margins by actually driving through a camera ( or for that matter overtake an unmarked law car ) at 100 mph +.On that basis unfortunately I'll just have to be seen as one of the 'lane hoggers' when overtaking at a ridiculously enforced,not chosen,low speed differential.
We're talking about the M25 managed sections & not marked or unmarked police cars & I never implied that three figure speeds are acceptable. All I've said is, the nsl is not being enforced by cameras. As for evidence I wonder how many thousands of people drive past these cameras above the nsl on a daily basis with nothing happening. Where are all the people complaining of nips for 79, 80, 81 etc. etc.
While my point is that at least up to 3 figure speeds certainly 'would'/'should' be 'acceptable' in order for the overtaking lanes to be used correctly and to avoid the issue of low speed differentials causing the 'perception' of lane hogging.As I've said that issue applies especially in the case of 4 lane motorways where the speed differentials under a strictly applied 78 mph max regime realistically means no more than a speed differential of less than 10 mph max respectively between the each of the lanes and around 14 mph in the case of 3 lane motorways.In which case adding more overtaking lanes actually creates more problems in the form of more perceived lane hogging because the speed differentials between the lanes are reduced.
As for people supposedly not complaining about nips for doing 80,90 etc I certainly wouldn't want to bet my licence on it.In which case 'if' the law really wants to do something about that speed differential issue then it is up to the law to actually confirm that the prosecution margins are going to be set at a realistic level wether it be cameras or unmarked cars etc.
Without and until that confirmation motorways are really just an increasingly over regulated liability in most respects.Leaving the catch 22 of the either certainty of an eventual serious speeding nick,or lane hogging accusation,or the inevitable hours long delay between junctions when the inevitable side swipe type pile up takes place caused by those low speed differentials.
XJ Flyer said:
Then the choice between that and using the A25/A20 instead seems ever more increasingly like a no brainer.
I'm intrigued. I can't think of any two points between which the A20 would ever be an alternative to the M25.I don't understand the thinking behind travelling at 100+ on the M25. It's littered with speed monitoring devices, so you're just being a hostage to fortune. Saving 10 minutes max at a cost of 3 points and £100, if not a higher penalty, doesn't strike me as a worthwhile outcome.
mygoldfishbowl said:
emmaT2014 said:
They certainly are enforcing NSL and trigger speeds are not unusually high.
Great. Firstly can you show us any evidence to support your claim? Secondly, what's high? If they are enforcing the nsl then the trigger speed will be 79* or a few above maybe. Is 79 high or is 89 high. Using the word high to describe speed leaves a lot to interpretation.Edited. *For vehicles with a nsl of 70 before the pedants arrive.
Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Sunday 14th December 23:54
I don't like relying on unofficial web sites but here you go, oh and I do beleive it is from the area concerned:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=9197...
"Tobster
Wed, 16 Jul 2014 - 16:57
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2014
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M5, J16-17 Southbound, S Glos, UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Evening, dry & quiet with few other vehicles around (I understand this is not legally relevant). Camera flashed as I was overtaking another vehicle (both vehicles on yard markings). Speed just over 90mph. I wrongly believed these cameras only enforced limits displayed on the signs.
COFP offered, SAC not (though they could shove it somewhere even if it was).
Envelope franked, unsure of postage class. Not signed for.
For anyone that has found this through search engines (as I couldn't find this out online): The Bristol managed motorway cameras DO enforce the national speed limit even when nothing is displayed!
Being something of an autobahn advocate, if I have a hope in hell's chance of fighting this I'd love to know, otherwise I'd better find 10,000 1p coins!
NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England"
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