(More) Budget Cuts and the (Proposed) 28 Day Bail Limit

(More) Budget Cuts and the (Proposed) 28 Day Bail Limit

Author
Discussion

Mojooo

12,668 posts

179 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
Bail does need controlling but ultimatley we all know that full investigations will take time and even longer with less staff available.

The issue for many isn't just continual bail but its finding out whether they will be charged or not - and you can have your bail cancelled but still be prosecuted 6 months later - so people will still have a cloud over them until they get closure.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
It sounds like the police service is in freefall. The service we get as a public is only going to get worse because of government penny pinching.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
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sparkythecat said:
The Police continue to shoot themselves in the foot by continually appearing to achieve the arbitary targets set for them. All activity is skewed so that the only things that get done are those things that are being measured at the time, rather than the things that really need doing.

The cynical manipulation of the crime figures to achieve crime reduction targets is really no different to any other form of creative accounting in other sectors. But, the false reality it creates, enables Chief Constables, PCC's and the Home Secretary to tell the public, what a marvelous job they are all doing in these straitened times.
Despite the OP himself being as busy as a one armed juggler, logic dictates the sad fact that police resources will continue to be cut until there is a noticeable and sustained rise in reported crime, or an increase in civil unrest.
The Home office havent set any targets in relation to crime for years now. All target setting is carried out either in-house by out of touch management or by individual by PCC's-theyve been told by the Home office to stop setting numerical targets.
Crime figures should show a significant rise next year now that the HMIC have jumped all over forces and told them to sort their act out - my force is around 12% up over this half year

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
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Bigends said:
Crime figures should show a significant rise next year now that the HMIC have jumped all over forces and told them to sort their act out - my force is around 12% up over this half year
Crime is falling, you are clearly measuring things wrongly. Expect advice from an expert politician on now to correct your errors.......

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
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mph1977 said:
it;s not necessarily 'poorer' areas itl;s none metropolitan areas and sparsely populated areas that have problems, especially where you have lots of none metros and lots of rural together without any Metropolitan areas ... like the East Midlands ...
Population density is a factor and I don't know how the proportions match up in terms of X people need Y officers. I wonder if more densly populatioed areas need greater of fewer numbers per head.

eldar said:
Not quite that simple. I live in a good, old fashioned, solid Labour working class area. The council tax, and police precept is already high by national standards.
It was a simplistic generalisation. The main point being the savings are proportional.

sparkythecat said:
The Police continue to shoot themselves in the foot by continually appearing to achieve the arbitary targets set for them.
Although they aren't there per se now (as BE points out - although HMIC still used them on the recent 'policing under pressure'), the recent historic achievements no doubt added weight.

On a related, but more genuine aspect. That attitude / culture of 'making things work' does the police service no favours. It allows other agencies / partners (the NHS, in some areas, social services etc) to not have to develop that mindset, which increases the police burden somewhat.

The police need to learn to "say no".

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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La Liga said:
I'm not really political, but it's very Tory to be hitting the poorer areas of the country harder than the affluent ones.
Many affluent parts of the country have little or no police presence to cut. I live in a small rural village and work in a small market town, I can't remember the last time I even saw a policeman. There's not much crime in my part of the country so I guess policing costs are very low anyway.

Elroy Blue

8,686 posts

191 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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RYH64E said:
. There's not much crime in my part of the country so I guess policing costs are very low anyway.
Not much VISIBLE crime.

Greendubber

13,130 posts

202 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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My other half is 'job' and deals with victims of domestic violence and rape etc. The waiting time for a decision to come back from CPS is longer than the proposed bail limits hehe

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
quotequote all
Elroy Blue said:
RYH64E said:
. There's not much crime in my part of the country so I guess policing costs are very low anyway.
Not much VISIBLE crime.
I was responding to a post that stated that the cuts in policing were hitting poorer parts of the country harder than the more affluent, and I stand by my point. The cost of policing in many affluent areas must be low because there's very little recorded crime, and if it's not recorded the police can't be spending much time on it. So what's to cut?

According to the www.police.uk crime map there are very, very few reported crimes in my part of sleepy Suffolk, none of which have been within 1 mile of my house so far this year. If I compare statistics for a London postcode where a friend lives the figures show 990 reported crimes within a 1 mile radius in October alone, and that's not a particularly bad area.

Guybrush

4,330 posts

205 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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The country's finances are not in a great state (thanks as we all know, to Labour): http://www.debtbombshell.com/

What to do, how should money be saved? I assume the government has not decided which departments / areas to implement the cuts, just the overall budget. Surely, the responsibility for where the cuts are made lies with the senior bods with the police departments(?). For example, take another public sector organisation, the NHS; I know the NHS is full of bureaucracy and that there is little need to cut front line staff, but oddly that's just what the senior personnel within the NHS do when presented with reduced budgets (reduced is a relative term in the NHS - it's a black hole for money).

carreauchompeur

17,830 posts

203 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
quotequote all
The NHS is the elephant in the room, the budget is just so massive nobody knows what to do with it. Any tinkering with health is politically unpalatable although there is clearly fat to be trimmed within the management. Sadly cuts never seem to be correctly targeted. And even now it's not really working as it should- my grandmother passed away this morning, she was struggling to breathe on Saturday due to a chest infection and the on-call doctor for the area took 9.5hrs to arrive.

I cannot see how more can be cut from the Police. The last round of 'reorganisation' has had a devastating effect on my department. Given how easily and readily it seems at the moment that Police officers are criminally prosecuted for failings at work and how overwhelmed we are I am constantly scared, and frustrated that I simply can't give the service we once did.

vonhosen

40,202 posts

216 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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skeggysteve said:
When there are cuts in public services the headlines are always the same.
NHS cuts - fewer nurses.
Police - fewer police officers.

But it not as simple as that, as we all know.

How about cutting the waste, the top heavy management or any other thing that doesn't actually do the job that the service is there to do.

My local police force is currently advertising for a Internal Communications Officer - £21,309 - £23,277

I agree with carinaman when he say that real criminal are going free but the automatic prosecution of motorist is rising.

A huge proportion of the budget is wages. The savings being talked about will only come from cutting personnel. In the last round Police staff took the hit. The next round is officer numbers & outsourcing functions to private sector.

Earthdweller

13,434 posts

125 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
quotequote all
Urgent forensics .. 3-6 months .. Laptop exams upto a year. Our high tech crime unit overwhelmed to such a point it hit the papers the other week.

I have seen the draft of what we won't be investigating shortly .. It shocked me and Ive been doing it for 28 years

Regularly screening out crimes where we could find an offender but we are just not because we have to prioritise what few resources we have

Are we going to continue investigating historic offences when we don't have the staff to investigate current ones ?

Arrest .. Interview then release without charge whilst police gather evidence ?

Then rearrest and charge when onvestigation complete .., sounds like abuse of process to me and the lawyers would have a field day .. Is it new evidence when it had taken us 6 months to examine a mobile phone ? I think not myself as we had that information all along.

We are heading back to policing 1980s style where we are completely reactive .. Only this time we will not be dealing with much crime at all .. Just recording it and moving on

Robert peel must be turning in his grave ..

I am ashamed of the woeful service we provide I know many colleagues are too

It is well and truly broken we are sinking and they want to cut more

We have virtually no traffic or dogs or air support, firearms cut or being regionalised

Response struggling to hit minimum strengths everyone single crewed .. Often going alone with no backup to jobs which should have several officers attending .. No wonder taser use is going up

Neighbourhood policing decimated .. Possibly soon to be extinct

The job relying on specials and volunteers

CID on its arse .. With very little experience on division a lot of CiD are trainees

God help us


Earthdweller

13,434 posts

125 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
quotequote all
Urgent forensics .. 3-6 months .. Laptop exams upto a year. Our high tech crime unit overwhelmed to such a point it hit the papers the other week.

I have seen the draft of what we won't be investigating shortly .. It shocked me and Ive been doing it for 28 years

Regularly screening out crimes where we could find an offender but we are just not because we have to prioritise what few resources we have

Are we going to continue investigating historic offences when we don't have the staff to investigate current ones ?

Arrest .. Interview then release without charge whilst police gather evidence ?

Then rearrest and charge when onvestigation complete .., sounds like abuse of process to me and the lawyers would have a field day .. Is it new evidence when it had taken us 6 months to examine a mobile phone ? I think not myself as we had that information all along.

We are heading back to policing 1980s style where we are completely reactive .. Only this time we will not be dealing with much crime at all .. Just recording it and moving on

Robert peel must be turning in his grave ..

I am ashamed of the woeful service we provide I know many colleagues are too

It is well and truly broken we are sinking and they want to cut more

We have virtually no traffic or dogs or air support, firearms cut or being regionalised

Response struggling to hit minimum strengths everyone single crewed .. Often going alone with no backup to jobs which should have several officers attending .. No wonder taser use is going up

Neighbourhood policing decimated .. Possibly soon to be extinct

The job relying on specials and volunteers

CID on its arse .. With very little experience on division a lot of CiD are trainees

God help us


Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
quotequote all
"What I can tell you, is any cabinet minister, if I win the election, who comes to me and says - "Here are my plans" - and they involve frontline reductions, they'll be sent straight back to their department to think again".

David Cameron - 2010.