Discussion
Gents,
A friend of mine, no really, parked in a 15 minute waiting bay, local authority controlled in order to sort out some bank details for his ill mother. He was seven minutes late and got back to find a traffic warden writing a ticket. I heard somewhere that it was mentioned in parliament that a ten minute grace period should apply. Is there any truth to this or should I tell him to suck it up and pay?
Cheers
A friend of mine, no really, parked in a 15 minute waiting bay, local authority controlled in order to sort out some bank details for his ill mother. He was seven minutes late and got back to find a traffic warden writing a ticket. I heard somewhere that it was mentioned in parliament that a ten minute grace period should apply. Is there any truth to this or should I tell him to suck it up and pay?
Cheers
Sorry, I think your friend is screwed on that particular point (if only councils always did what they "should" do). But he can post the details here to see if there's anything about the signage etc that he can use to get the ticket overturned. There quite possibly will be.
(Some people will tell you that there's something immoral about trying to "get off on a technicality" like that, but those same people seem strangely silent about the morality of councils using parking enforcement to raise revenue...)
(Some people will tell you that there's something immoral about trying to "get off on a technicality" like that, but those same people seem strangely silent about the morality of councils using parking enforcement to raise revenue...)
stitched said:
I heard somewhere that it was mentioned in parliament that a ten minute grace period should apply. Is there any truth to this or should I tell him to suck it up and pay?
There is, and never has been, any grace period for decriminalised parking. You're mixing it up with the observation period.See pages 47 & 48 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The above is only guidance. It is entirely a matter for each local authority which operates DPE to decide what that period should be.
Most that I have found have adopted the recommended figure: see page 22 here - http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx...
Note that for some contraventions, the observation period is zero. See this list here - http://www.newcastle-staffs.gov.uk/documents/trans...
So your friend is screwed unless the signage is defective, there has been a procedural error in issuing the ticket, or the ticket itself is defective in some way. Most LAs have now got their act together on the last of these.
Local hospital is moving towards this (see piccy).
I queried about just dropping off or picking up, due to the layout of the hospital you go past the ANPR cams as i did one evening the other week.
I was told there is a 20 minute period where vehicles would not be charged and referred to the hospital parking policy below.
http://www.eastcheshire.nhs.uk/Patients-Visitors/c...
No where on there or in the attached piccy can i see a 20min grace period ??
I queried about just dropping off or picking up, due to the layout of the hospital you go past the ANPR cams as i did one evening the other week.
I was told there is a 20 minute period where vehicles would not be charged and referred to the hospital parking policy below.
http://www.eastcheshire.nhs.uk/Patients-Visitors/c...
No where on there or in the attached piccy can i see a 20min grace period ??
speedyguy said:
Local hospital is moving towards this (see piccy).
I queried about just dropping off or picking up, due to the layout of the hospital you go past the ANPR cams as i did one evening the other week.
I was told there is a 20 minute period where vehicles would not be charged and referred to the hospital parking policy below.
http://www.eastcheshire.nhs.uk/Patients-Visitors/c...
No where on there or in the attached piccy can i see a 20min grace period ??
Your example differs from the OP as it's not a LA enforced car park. Do not on any account trust what you have been told on the phone.I queried about just dropping off or picking up, due to the layout of the hospital you go past the ANPR cams as i did one evening the other week.
I was told there is a 20 minute period where vehicles would not be charged and referred to the hospital parking policy below.
http://www.eastcheshire.nhs.uk/Patients-Visitors/c...
No where on there or in the attached piccy can i see a 20min grace period ??
They have got into bed with that paragon of PPC virtue, Parking Eye - http://www.eastcheshire.nhs.uk/news/Parking-easier...
According to that link, PE will have to follow the Trust's guidance, not its own, re initial appeals. Excuse my cynicism but I find that hard to believe considering PE's attitude to enforcement at hospitals run by other NHS Trusts (see below).
The bit towards the end about mitigating circumstances is a neat trap because, should the motorist wish to go to POPLA, the latter will not under any circumstances consider mitigation as grounds for an appeal.
East Cheshire are going down the same route as Barnet - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/ba...
I hope it comes back to bite them as it did Northumbria NHS Trust - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/pa...
The UHB NHS Foundation Trust managed to find a fair solution - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/br...
I note that in East Cheshire it is clearly stated that PE will retain the PCN income. This flies directly in the face of the third bullet point in the government's stated principles in respect of contracted-out parking - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-pat...
Is this something the Ombudsman could investigate? I don't have much faith in Jeremy Hunt getting off his backside unless prodded with a very sharp stick.
The direction of travel is against the dodgy parkers as far as this government is concerned. Yes, they outlawed clamping yet, on the other hand, they also altered the common law privity rules for parking contracts so Registered Keepers could become liable in certain circumstances, irrespective of who actually did the parking.
Where are things heading?
Well, the appeal court will be looking early next year at the issue of liquidated damages in relation to parking charges. That could go either way, as the current situation is very messy and I suspect they will rule that as things stand the charges do not fit what are understood to be true liquidated damages. This would likely leave PPCs in a very difficult spot. Of course, it might be that the case is settled before it is heard, depending on who gets shakiest soonest.
IF the CoA rules against the principle of £80 or so being acceptable liquidated damages for parking in a free car park, either the business model of those car parks will have to change or, perhaps more sensibly, legislation will be introduced to properly regulate and set fine levels (whilst at the same time accepting they are fines and not trying to fit the square peg of a contract law into the round hole that is enforcing rights over free parking spaces).
Either way, landlords will still need to be able to control their land and people will still receive parking tickets. A nirvana of getting no parking tickets or ticket so small in value that it doesn't matter is unlikely to materialise and people hoping or expecting for that should put their dreams in the bin.
Where are things heading?
Well, the appeal court will be looking early next year at the issue of liquidated damages in relation to parking charges. That could go either way, as the current situation is very messy and I suspect they will rule that as things stand the charges do not fit what are understood to be true liquidated damages. This would likely leave PPCs in a very difficult spot. Of course, it might be that the case is settled before it is heard, depending on who gets shakiest soonest.
IF the CoA rules against the principle of £80 or so being acceptable liquidated damages for parking in a free car park, either the business model of those car parks will have to change or, perhaps more sensibly, legislation will be introduced to properly regulate and set fine levels (whilst at the same time accepting they are fines and not trying to fit the square peg of a contract law into the round hole that is enforcing rights over free parking spaces).
Either way, landlords will still need to be able to control their land and people will still receive parking tickets. A nirvana of getting no parking tickets or ticket so small in value that it doesn't matter is unlikely to materialise and people hoping or expecting for that should put their dreams in the bin.
Red Devil said:
Stuff
Thanks,I may wind the hospital 'facilities' team up this week, along with the local MP and Jeremy #unt, quite funny that the 'facilities woman' said Georgie Porgie the MP from the next constituency was along recently and was all for it.
I doubt she knows what she's on about,
It doesn't really affect him yet, It will as it's the local hospital of many of his constituents and the local press haven't taken a closer look yet
.A Minister 'trying to understand' some 'ANPR parking" issues cancelled a meeting last week and has rescheduled for early next year as he has no idea of the unworkable sh!tstorm it may cause if badly implemented without thought which is what usually happens
.http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/local-n...
Seems like the local press picked it up 2 days ago.
Seems like the local press picked it up 2 days ago.
said:
Tim Hospital chief exec ParkingEye will retain revenue from any parking charges given to motorists who fail to pay for their stay. These charges are set to increase slightly from the current £60, or £30 if paid within 14 days, to £70, or £40 if paid within 14 days.
So is £40 a fair GPEOL ???Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff