Fuel theft or fraudulent payment ?
Discussion
I topped up the car today for a long journey tomorrow, as i put the cap back on the chap at the pump behind also put the cap back on his car, we both went to pay, me in front.
I went to get some sweets then went to pay, the chap had finished paying for his and left.
I said "pump 3 please" , bloke behind counter - "pump 3 is clear, do you mean 4?". "No, look my car is on 3" at this point the chap who was behind me started to drive out, the behind the counter man rushed out of the shop shouting at the bloke to stop, he didn't, he stuck 2 fingers up and drove off!
Turns out the chap had paid mine, not his. After a bit of messing about i managed to pay for mine; about £35 the chap who'd done a runner had racked up nearly £70 for his fill up!
I'm guessing this was an opportunist "strike" but bloody hell the cheek of it, apparently it's happened a few times at this garage, they didn't seem too concerned though, they said they had his mug shot and reg on camera, although he paid cash so no name.
So, is that theft of fuel, or fraud because he paid for somebody elses lesser amount not his own???
I went to get some sweets then went to pay, the chap had finished paying for his and left.
I said "pump 3 please" , bloke behind counter - "pump 3 is clear, do you mean 4?". "No, look my car is on 3" at this point the chap who was behind me started to drive out, the behind the counter man rushed out of the shop shouting at the bloke to stop, he didn't, he stuck 2 fingers up and drove off!
Turns out the chap had paid mine, not his. After a bit of messing about i managed to pay for mine; about £35 the chap who'd done a runner had racked up nearly £70 for his fill up!
I'm guessing this was an opportunist "strike" but bloody hell the cheek of it, apparently it's happened a few times at this garage, they didn't seem too concerned though, they said they had his mug shot and reg on camera, although he paid cash so no name.
So, is that theft of fuel, or fraud because he paid for somebody elses lesser amount not his own???
KFC said:
Sounds more like an honest mistake to me.
You reckon...?sherbertdip said:
...the behind the counter man rushed out of the shop shouting at the bloke to stop, he didn't, he stuck 2 fingers up and drove off!
If it was an "honest mistake", wouldn't your first thought have been "Oooh, wonder if I dropped something?", and stopped to find out?Marvib said:
If he was paying by card, yes. Can't be a honest mistake paying cash surely.
I could easily see someone being distracted and just paying whatever the attendant asked for without really thinking about it.It doesn't really seem a brilliant way to steal fuel does it. You're getting yourself on way more cameras and you're paying half the price rather than nothing at all. If you're going to do it more than once and they're all linked together the "oh sorry I made a mistake" card is no longer playable.
) and finish fuelling at the same time 
Erm, ok then, the flip side and one that i admit I hadn't considered is that it wasn't intentional.
Say. he went to pay his fuel, the attendant pulled up the wrong pump, chappie thought "oh yes they've made a mistake i'll pay £35 and scarper", he makes his escape nearly getting hauled back.
Is this scenario one of deception or merely tough luck on the part of the garage?
Say. he went to pay his fuel, the attendant pulled up the wrong pump, chappie thought "oh yes they've made a mistake i'll pay £35 and scarper", he makes his escape nearly getting hauled back.
Is this scenario one of deception or merely tough luck on the part of the garage?
Bigends said:
Not a making off as the OP hasnt made off. CCTV viewing should sort things out
You ought to read the legislation. If the person leaves with the intention of not making full payment the offence is complete. He doesn't escape because he makes some payment (my bold);"Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment of the amount due shall be guilty of an offence".
The enormous difficulty here is proving intent (which you would with any offence requiring it), unless you could have them with the same MO on multiple occasions.
Edited by allergictocheese on Sunday 21st December 19:05
allergictocheese said:
Bigends said:
Not a making off as the OP hasnt made off. CCTV viewing should sort things out
You ought to read the legislation. If the person leaves with the intention of not making full payment the offence is complete. He doesn't escape because he makes some payment (my bold);"Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods supplied or service done is required or expected from him, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with intent to avoid payment of the amount due shall be guilty of an offence".
The enormous difficulty here is proving intent (which you would with any offence requiring it), unless you could have them with the same MO on multiple occasions.
Edited by allergictocheese on Sunday 21st December 19:05
Edited by Bigends on Sunday 21st December 19:22
t! Hardly seems worth it 
Bigends, you might deal with them 'every day' and you might have your own internal policies, however that doesn't mean your interpretation is the right one (though it may determine whether or not you take action).
It is the payment that is due 'on the spot', rather than a reference to the physical location of the offender. There is no meaningful difference in your scenerio between dishonestly making no payment or dishonestly making part payment. Either way the offender has dishonestly failed to make payment and left with the intention of never fully paying.
It is the payment that is due 'on the spot', rather than a reference to the physical location of the offender. There is no meaningful difference in your scenerio between dishonestly making no payment or dishonestly making part payment. Either way the offender has dishonestly failed to make payment and left with the intention of never fully paying.
allergictocheese said:
Bigends, you might deal with them 'every day' and you might have your own internal policies, however that doesn't mean your interpretation is the right one (though it may determine whether or not you take action).
It is the payment that is due 'on the spot', rather than a reference to the physical location of the offender. There is no meaningful difference in your scenerio between dishonestly making no payment or dishonestly making part payment. Either way the offender has dishonestly failed to make payment and left with the intention of never fully paying.
In this case the OP hasnt committed any offence.It is the payment that is due 'on the spot', rather than a reference to the physical location of the offender. There is no meaningful difference in your scenerio between dishonestly making no payment or dishonestly making part payment. Either way the offender has dishonestly failed to make payment and left with the intention of never fully paying.
If the other driver has deliberately paid the lower amount - theyve committed fraud - that assuming staff error has been ruled out. Youd have to prove the other driver deliberately declared the wrong pump
We have no internal policies - the counting rules are quite clear on this.
All the other driver would have to say is that they didnt check the amount theyd paid and assumed theyd paid the correct amount - difficult to prosecute in that case.
Its fraud or no crime
Edited by Bigends on Sunday 21st December 19:36
If he's actually buggered off without being spotted, then any follow-up (assuming the plates are real) is easy to deflect with "Oooh, I'm sorry. Don't know where my head was at. Genuine mistake. Here's the difference."
It's only in being almost stopped by the cashier that he's revealed his true intentions.
(There is, of course, still the "Nope, wasn't me. I was elsewhere." option...)
It's only in being almost stopped by the cashier that he's revealed his true intentions.
(There is, of course, still the "Nope, wasn't me. I was elsewhere." option...)
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