etiquette in addressing a Crown Court Judge, help please
Discussion
Cat said:
as cited reference by Cat above ... doesn't take black belt google fu to find it either agtlaw said:
Carnage is alluding to the fact that all judges at the Central Criminal Court ("the Old Bailey") are referred to as My Lord or My Lady - even if they are a crown court judge.
Many court centres have an honorary Recorder who is entitled to use the title. High Court judges regularly sit in metropolitan court centres. I think there are only 70 or so High Court judges, and a consequence they are not commonplace in crown courts.
Yup. None of them corrected me though!Many court centres have an honorary Recorder who is entitled to use the title. High Court judges regularly sit in metropolitan court centres. I think there are only 70 or so High Court judges, and a consequence they are not commonplace in crown courts.
They don't always get it right though
Back in the 80s I didn't work Wednesday's so a couple of times I sat in the public gallery at a magistrates court.
An Italian guy was being prosecuted for parking on the zig zags of a crossing and pleaded not guilty
The court suspected the guy in court was his brother who had a clean licence while the owner of the car had 9 points.
The court usher was Indian
When asked to give his name he said it and the usher said , that's not your name
Yes it is
No it's not
Yes it is
Then the usher slammed the paperwork down on the desk with all the drama of a TV show and said
Then WHO is this Alfa Romeo
Er that's the make of the car
Even the magistrates started laughing, it made the local paper the next day
Back in the 80s I didn't work Wednesday's so a couple of times I sat in the public gallery at a magistrates court.
An Italian guy was being prosecuted for parking on the zig zags of a crossing and pleaded not guilty
The court suspected the guy in court was his brother who had a clean licence while the owner of the car had 9 points.
The court usher was Indian
When asked to give his name he said it and the usher said , that's not your name
Yes it is
No it's not
Yes it is
Then the usher slammed the paperwork down on the desk with all the drama of a TV show and said
Then WHO is this Alfa Romeo
Er that's the make of the car
Even the magistrates started laughing, it made the local paper the next day
Edited by wack on Thursday 25th December 08:16
Calling a Magistrate "Your Worship" is very Trumpton, and it may be that only Old Skool coppers do this. Everyone else says Sir or Madam, as the case may be. Not "Ma'am", as she ain't the Queen, and this ain't the army. Sir and Madam do in Tribunals and Inquiries, and at Inquests also.
As noted above, Circuit Judges (His Honour Judge Bloggs) not sitting at the Bailey are "Your Honour". These days, there are rather more than 70 High Court Judges (Mr Justice or Mrs Justice Bloggs). They are addressed as "My Lord" or "My Lady", as are Court of Appeal (Lord Justice or Lady Justice Bloggs) and Supreme Court Judges (Lord or Lady Bloggs). To add to the confusion, most CA and Supreme Court Judges aren't actually Lords or Ladies, although all are at least Knights or Dames.
Strictly speaking, you are not supposed to say "you" to a Judge in Court, but instead say "Would your Lordship turn to page 279 of the bundle", or even "would My Lord turn to page 279" of the bundle, but in practice modern Judges don't mind a few "yous".
No lawyer, by the way, ever says MiLud. That is a fiction much like the use of gavels in English courts.
Added oddities - meet a High Court Judge socially and you call him or her Sir John or Dame Jane, but if you are a lawyer and are not on first name terms with the Judge you call him or her Judge.
As noted above, Circuit Judges (His Honour Judge Bloggs) not sitting at the Bailey are "Your Honour". These days, there are rather more than 70 High Court Judges (Mr Justice or Mrs Justice Bloggs). They are addressed as "My Lord" or "My Lady", as are Court of Appeal (Lord Justice or Lady Justice Bloggs) and Supreme Court Judges (Lord or Lady Bloggs). To add to the confusion, most CA and Supreme Court Judges aren't actually Lords or Ladies, although all are at least Knights or Dames.
Strictly speaking, you are not supposed to say "you" to a Judge in Court, but instead say "Would your Lordship turn to page 279 of the bundle", or even "would My Lord turn to page 279" of the bundle, but in practice modern Judges don't mind a few "yous".
No lawyer, by the way, ever says MiLud. That is a fiction much like the use of gavels in English courts.
Added oddities - meet a High Court Judge socially and you call him or her Sir John or Dame Jane, but if you are a lawyer and are not on first name terms with the Judge you call him or her Judge.
Surely any letter to anybody, no matter who they are, is not going to cause offence if it starts with "Dear sir" or "Dear madam", even if technically incorrect? People in high office are still human beings, and I doubt any would take umbrage at any suitably formal address, particularly when received from a lay-person who can be forgiven for not knowing the correct one. Personally I'd just go with "Dear sir" or "Dear madam" if I know the gender; otherwise "Dear sir/madam". I think it would be worse to attempt something fancier and get it wrong.
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