Ticket in Limited Speed Hire Vehicle

[Osinjak]

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

[505diff]

I'm sure the first version of the Vito had a 70 limit, as at the time the local scammer partnership used them so they could not waste any time when driving between collection points, getting ready to ping the smaller, far more dangerous Ford Connect at the same leithal speed they travelled to the the pitch at.

[FiF]

jmorgan said:

paintman said:

Wouldn't take much for a hire company to give a sheet showing vehicle speed limit when hiring out vans.

I can see that being a help but I can also see that being a can of worms. They would have to be very careful how it is worded, far easier to let the driver deal with it methinks?

Yep, especially considering that, dependent upon the specified and fitted equipment, different versions of the same small van can be subject to different limits.

All in the cause as Callaghan once inferred, a van capable of being driven legally and safely at 70 on a motorway would rip open like a sardine can should something untoward happen on a dual carriageway.

The law really is an ass.

[Fort Jefferson]

pingu393 said:

The argument is what is a "car-derived van"?

There is no argument. If it's plated it's a van, if it's not, it's a car derived van.

Google images "van weight plate"

[jmorgan]

Osinjak said:

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

You start down the road of controlled documents and someone carrying the can if the wrong bit of paper ends up in the wrong van and the renter says it impeded a delivery etc etc. Sure as eggs is eggs someone will try to take a firm to court over a missing reminder and a speed ticket. Previous renter lost the note, new renter does not get a new copy, judging by threads on PH, they will be looking to take it out on the company hiring the vehicle.

Perhaps a reminder to examine the highway code.

[Johnnytheboy]

allergictocheese said:

Either better publicise the current law or revise it would be my opinion.

To my knowledge the only time the general public are told about this is at speed awareness courses, after they've been caught.

[FiF]

Fort Jefferson said:

pingu393 said:

The argument is what is a "car-derived van"?

There is no argument. If it's plated it's a van, if it's not, it's a car derived van.

Google images "van weight plate"

Or perhaps not.

Department for Transport said:

Because of the limited definition in law of a car-derived van, the only test of whether an individual vehicle falls into that category is via a court of law. 

In this case our much maligned civil servants are, technically, correct.

[Osinjak]

jmorgan said:

You start down the road of controlled documents and someone carrying the can if the wrong bit of paper ends up in the wrong van and the renter says it impeded a delivery etc etc. Sure as eggs is eggs someone will try to take a firm to court over a missing reminder and a speed ticket. Previous renter lost the note, new renter does not get a new copy, judging by threads on PH, they will be looking to take it out on the company hiring the vehicle.

Perhaps a reminder to examine the highway code.

I don't doubt it all, the number of chancers and blame merchants on this site is truly astounding. However, processes and procedures at handover with a hire car are pretty easy to achieve. Hiree hands the hirer printed matter relating to speeds in vans (and variants thereof) and says at point of handover, read this document it tells you that you must not go over 60 mph (or whatever) on DCs and all the rest of it. Of course, if the geezer hands over the wrong document/gives duff info and the hirer gets pinched then it all gets squirly but the onus is still on the driver to understand the law.

I don't think it's a question of liability and I suppose firms aren't obliged to give them this info but it would be good business practice, might save the inexperienced and unaware pain and grief later. I just don't think its difficult to help people out and warn them off.

[MrsMiggins]

No help to the OP, but the last van I hired was a 9 seat VW Transporter and it had a small sticker in the top corner of the windscreen that showed the applicable speed limits for the vehicle.

I already knew it was subject to lower limits, but the other 2 drivers didn't know anything about it and in fact refused to believe it was the case until I pointed out that it was on the sticker in the van.

[Sheepshanks]

Sir Bagalot said:

I knew this.

But only because I learnt it on the driver awareness course I attended. Before that I honestly didn't know because I had never driven a van.

My daughter was on an SAC and a "professional" van driver also on the course had no idea different limits applied.

[FiF]

Osinjak said:

jmorgan said:

You start down the road of controlled documents and someone carrying the can if the wrong bit of paper ends up in the wrong van and the renter says it impeded a delivery etc etc. Sure as eggs is eggs someone will try to take a firm to court over a missing reminder and a speed ticket. Previous renter lost the note, new renter does not get a new copy, judging by threads on PH, they will be looking to take it out on the company hiring the vehicle.

Perhaps a reminder to examine the highway code.

I don't doubt it all, the number of chancers and blame merchants on this site is truly astounding. However, processes and procedures at handover with a hire car are pretty easy to achieve. Hiree hands the hirer printed matter relating to speeds in vans (and variants thereof) and says at point of handover, read this document it tells you that you must not go over 60 mph (or whatever) on DCs and all the rest of it. Of course, if the geezer hands over the wrong document/gives duff info and the hirer gets pinched then it all gets squirly but the onus is still on the driver to understand the law.

I don't think it's a question of liability and I suppose firms aren't obliged to give them this info but it would be good business practice, might save the inexperienced and unaware pain and grief later. I just don't think its difficult to help people out and warn them off.

Well exactly. It wouldn't involve rocket science when a new vehicle enters the fleet, any new vehicle, for a code to be assigned to it. That code prompts the automatic print out of the vehicle specific NSL on various types of road and shown on the hire documents. Get the hirer to initial that they've read and understood them the hire company is off the hook, provided of course they've assigned the correct code. Certainly at that point, acceptance of a new vehicle, they are the ones in the best position to determine status, not some driver who has many other things on his/her mind.

[Sheepshanks]

Osinjak said:

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

No it's not - they can do 70 on motorways.

Also their limit on single carriageway NSLs is 50.

[Osinjak]

Sheepshanks said:

Osinjak said:

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

No it's not - they can do 70 on motorways.

Also their limit on single carriageway NSLs is 50.

You're focusing on the wrong part of the sentence.

[martinbiz]

carreauchompeur said:

Yeah, that would make sense.

I fear that it's not worth doing anything other than pleading guilty and taking it on the chin- any mitigation related to lack of knowledge wouldn't generally help- and she was exceeding the car limit anyway.

At 74 in a 60 she should be offered an SAC if she qualifies.

[martinbiz]

tom_loughlin said:

I've fallen foul of this one too -56mph on a NSL single carriageway main road (A5 near Shrewsbury) in a Transit.

Oops

Unusual to get done for 56, sure it wasn't 57?

[Sheepshanks]

Osinjak said:

Sheepshanks said:

Osinjak said:

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

No it's not - they can do 70 on motorways.

Also their limit on single carriageway NSLs is 50.

You're focusing on the wrong part of the sentence.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

[Phatboy317]

As far as I'm aware, there's no legal requirement to examine the Highway Code, nor any other document which may make the reader aware of the law.

[Osinjak]

Sheepshanks said:

Osinjak said:

Sheepshanks said:

Osinjak said:

Why would it have to be carefully worded, it's pretty simple shirley? 'Do not drive this van over 60mph, it's against the law.'

No it's not - they can do 70 on motorways.

Also their limit on single carriageway NSLs is 50.

You're focusing on the wrong part of the sentence.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

Gladly. My point is about the difficulty of telling people what the law is at the point of hiring, not what the actual limits are. The 60 mph example I gave is for illustrative purposes only in order to give weight to my suggestion about how easy it is to help someone who is unsure. It is not factual.

Does that help?

[Sheepshanks]

Osinjak said:

Gladly. My point is about the difficulty of telling people what the law is at the point of hiring, not what the actual limits are. The 60 mph example I gave is for illustrative purposes only in order to give weight to my suggestion about how easy it is to help someone who is unsure. It is not factual.

Does that help?

I understand now that it was an example but the statement is factually incorrect.

I feel you are also incorrect when you say that it's easy to help someone. If you (as a hirer) were going to pass on such information then it needs to be complete and a lot of people will find the information confusing. Heck, we've had threads on here where PHer's don't know what constitutes a dual carriageway.

[jmorgan]

FiF said:

Osinjak said:

jmorgan said:

You start down the road of controlled documents and someone carrying the can if the wrong bit of paper ends up in the wrong van and the renter says it impeded a delivery etc etc. Sure as eggs is eggs someone will try to take a firm to court over a missing reminder and a speed ticket. Previous renter lost the note, new renter does not get a new copy, judging by threads on PH, they will be looking to take it out on the company hiring the vehicle.

Perhaps a reminder to examine the highway code.

I don't doubt it all, the number of chancers and blame merchants on this site is truly astounding. However, processes and procedures at handover with a hire car are pretty easy to achieve. Hiree hands the hirer printed matter relating to speeds in vans (and variants thereof) and says at point of handover, read this document it tells you that you must not go over 60 mph (or whatever) on DCs and all the rest of it. Of course, if the geezer hands over the wrong document/gives duff info and the hirer gets pinched then it all gets squirly but the onus is still on the driver to understand the law.

I don't think it's a question of liability and I suppose firms aren't obliged to give them this info but it would be good business practice, might save the inexperienced and unaware pain and grief later. I just don't think its difficult to help people out and warn them off.

Well exactly. It wouldn't involve rocket science when a new vehicle enters the fleet, any new vehicle, for a code to be assigned to it. That code prompts the automatic print out of the vehicle specific NSL on various types of road and shown on the hire documents. Get the hirer to initial that they've read and understood them the hire company is off the hook, provided of course they've assigned the correct code. Certainly at that point, acceptance of a new vehicle, they are the ones in the best position to determine status, not some driver who has many other things on his/her mind.

Not disagreeing that it is a good idea, just that I can see pitfalls and grief for a firm and a red tape paper work mountain.

How many firms have a good quality control for example? That is they tie a particular van to a code for its life in that hire company and will monitor the law to make sure that the signed for acceptance is correct? Some hire companies are not so organised.


And when you start on limits, what about all the other bits? What if they pick up a big stone chip in the screen, or run out of washer fluid?

Wonder what the legal perspective is on this, out of interest. How far can it go wrong?