Ticket in Limited Speed Hire Vehicle
Discussion
What rubbish. If the willingness is there it's very simple to show the accurate facts specific to that vehicle and get a signed//initialled acknowledgement from the customer that they've been told and understood.
See my post above @ 13:07
Edited to say that the above post was aimed at osinjak's.
Re jmorgan saying it's difficult to arrange a code to a single vehicle. Even the most inefficient hire company manage to keep the VRN.
The big problem is going to be the interpretation of car derived van or not. Other than that it should be straight forward imo.
See my post above @ 13:07
Edited to say that the above post was aimed at osinjak's.
Re jmorgan saying it's difficult to arrange a code to a single vehicle. Even the most inefficient hire company manage to keep the VRN.
The big problem is going to be the interpretation of car derived van or not. Other than that it should be straight forward imo.
Edited by FiF on Tuesday 30th December 13:57
Sheepshanks said:
I understand now that it was an example but the statement is factually incorrect.
I feel you are also incorrect when you say that it's easy to help someone. If you (as a hirer) were going to pass on such information then it needs to be complete and a lot of people will find the information confusing. Heck, we've had threads on here where PHer's don't know what constitutes a dual carriageway.
It's not meant to be factually correct, it's an illustrative example. That's what illustrations do, they illustrate how simple or difficult it is to do X thing. You're picking holes in something that isn't designed to be a definitive example nor a statement of fact. The illustration (or example) supports the suggestion that it's not difficult to tell someone what the current situation is with regard to speed limits. If it makes you any happier, substitute 60 with XX, the point still stands regardless.I feel you are also incorrect when you say that it's easy to help someone. If you (as a hirer) were going to pass on such information then it needs to be complete and a lot of people will find the information confusing. Heck, we've had threads on here where PHer's don't know what constitutes a dual carriageway.
And I still don't agree that it's difficult to tell someone what the limits are, you hand them a piece of paper that tells them what the limits are, how hard is that?
An illustration with a fictional van and fictional speed limits:
This van must not be driven in excess of:
25 mph in urban areas
50mph on NSL
65 mph on DCs/motorways.
If you do, pointage will occur.
Pick your wording to your heart's content but I still don't think it's difficult to help people out.
FiF said:
Re jmorgan saying it's difficult to arrange a code to a single vehicle. Even the most inefficient hire company manage to keep the VRN.
Not what I was aiming at, more there are firms with good practices and firms with not so good practices perhaps. Of course they will all the paperwork but if a firm is less inclined to do this as good will, as it can be no other way as I see it, then they may have the paper work but not really care it is up to scratch with the helpful advice. Bit of paper flaps out the window on the M1 and not replaced on vehicle return, or not really making sure the hirer really does understand why they are signng for. Just that I can see a large range of application of goodwill across the business.Do hire firms have to be registered or inspected in any way?
Osinjak said:
It's not meant to be factually correct, it's an illustrative example. That's what illustrations do, they illustrate how simple or difficult it is to do X thing. You're picking holes in something that isn't designed to be a definitive example nor a statement of fact. The illustration (or example) supports the suggestion that it's not difficult to tell someone what the current situation is with regard to speed limits. If it makes you any happier, substitute 60 with XX, the point still stands regardless.
etc..
OK.etc..
bimsb6 said:
And how many of us knew a speed limited vehicle is not allowed in the o/s lane of a motorway ?
Limiter fitted you mean? And how many lanes?Begs the question if someone hires a 3.5+t van, assuming the licence is OK, do we remind them of their obligations?
And how many are driving above their licence entitlement? (Just wondering if it slips the net).
How hard can it be to attach a sticker to the vehicle* and include this chart as part of the hire paperwork?
Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
jmorgan said:
Not what I was aiming at, more there are firms with good practices and firms with not so good practices perhaps. Of course they will all the paperwork but if a firm is less inclined to do this as good will, as it can be no other way as I see it, then they may have the paper work but not really care it is up to scratch with the helpful advice. Bit of paper flaps out the window on the M1 and not replaced on vehicle return, or not really making sure the hirer really does understand why they are signng for. Just that I can see a large range of application of goodwill across the business.
Do hire firms have to be registered or inspected in any way?
Perhaps it ought to be a condition of BVRLA membership? It would certainly be good customer service imo.Do hire firms have to be registered or inspected in any way?
Re other rules mentioned in earlier posts. There's also the issue of borrowing a larger goods vehicle > 3500kg in connection with your business and being caught not in possession of operator's licence.
Red Devil said:
How hard can it be to attach a sticker to the vehicle* and include this chart as part of the hire paperwork?
Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
I hired a van from Arnie Clark's a few months ago and this very sticker was in it.Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
woosh said:
Hi All,
The missus recently hired a small van (the first time she'd ever hired a vehicle) and she got caught doing 74mph in a 70 limit (dual carriageway). The 74 in a 70 would have been bad enough but it now turns out the vehicle she hired is limited to 60mph for dual carriageway use.
When she hired the vehicle nobody explained there was any speed limitations associated with it and there was nothing in either the vehicle, or the hire paperwork to explain the limitations.
Does anyone have any view on the likelihood of this being accepted as mitigating circumstances, or is this just a case the law saying "....she should have known"?
Thanks,
Woosh!!
OP in ignorance is no defence shocker, when was the last time you looked at the highway code ???The missus recently hired a small van (the first time she'd ever hired a vehicle) and she got caught doing 74mph in a 70 limit (dual carriageway). The 74 in a 70 would have been bad enough but it now turns out the vehicle she hired is limited to 60mph for dual carriageway use.
When she hired the vehicle nobody explained there was any speed limitations associated with it and there was nothing in either the vehicle, or the hire paperwork to explain the limitations.
Does anyone have any view on the likelihood of this being accepted as mitigating circumstances, or is this just a case the law saying "....she should have known"?
Thanks,
Woosh!!
hire companies tend to assume that hirers are aware of basic things like the speed limits for commercial vehicles....
ELD3R said:
Red Devil said:
How hard can it be to attach a sticker to the vehicle* and include this chart as part of the hire paperwork?
Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
I hired a van from Arnie Clark's a few months ago and this very sticker was in it.Hirer signs a declaration that they been given it, have read it, and understood it.
* Granted it would be an issue for a bike but there are far fewer rental firms than for cars.
If the hire company offer no advice it's clear that responsibility lies with the driver (as it should), if they offer advice that turns out to be incorrect incomplete, or misleading then they're leaving themselves open to blame. Far safer to leave it to the driver to sort out, trying to help people usually ends up biting you in the arse.
505diff said:
I'm sure the first version of the Vito had a 70 limit, as at the time the local scammer partnership used them so they could not waste any time when driving between collection points, getting ready to ping the smaller, far more dangerous Ford Connect at the same leithal speed they travelled to the the pitch at.
The Vito was also available as a car (MPV) and was subject to car speed limits, the difference being the number of seats and the windows behind the B pillar. The Viano is also similarly specified.I am aware that the V5 does not define the speed limits that are applicable for that vehicle, one poster has suggested that if a vehicle is plated then it is subject to lower limits (but this has been denied by another poster). Can anybody point to a definitive piece of documentation that is supplied with the vehicle that defines the speed limits for that vehicle?
The V5 shows if it is a goods vehicle or a car. Look for N1 - that's a van!
Vito is still available as a Traveliner. No VAT recovery (unless bought exclusively for business use), higher road tax, and car speed limit just like the Viano.
Vito panel van and Dualiner are commercials, allow VAT recovery for VAT-registered buyers, have van road tax, and get the lower speed limit.
And for the pedants, I know it is Vehicle Excise Duty but if I MUST pay tax to use my car on the road, I don't care what you want to call it because, to me, it is road tax. End of.
Vito is still available as a Traveliner. No VAT recovery (unless bought exclusively for business use), higher road tax, and car speed limit just like the Viano.
Vito panel van and Dualiner are commercials, allow VAT recovery for VAT-registered buyers, have van road tax, and get the lower speed limit.
And for the pedants, I know it is Vehicle Excise Duty but if I MUST pay tax to use my car on the road, I don't care what you want to call it because, to me, it is road tax. End of.
MrsMiggins said:
No help to the OP, but the last van I hired was a 9 seat VW Transporter and it had a small sticker in the top corner of the windscreen that showed the applicable speed limits for the vehicle.
I already knew it was subject to lower limits, but the other 2 drivers didn't know anything about it and in fact refused to believe it was the case until I pointed out that it was on the sticker in the van.
Ironically there's a good chance a 9 seater Transporter is a "dual purpose vehicle" and therefore subject to car speed limits.I already knew it was subject to lower limits, but the other 2 drivers didn't know anything about it and in fact refused to believe it was the case until I pointed out that it was on the sticker in the van.
Just to add a bit more confusion.
OMG we're into the argument over dualiner speed limits again.
If the vehicle meets the definition of a dual purpose vehicle as written in the appropriate regulations, then I don't give a stuff what the incompetent DVLA refer to it on the V5, or what the rules for VAT recovery and any other sundry b
ks people dredge up says, such stuff is irrelevant. If it meets all the definition as written then it qualifies as a dual purpose vehicle and thus the higher limits apply.
FULL STOP. Rule off.
If the vehicle meets the definition of a dual purpose vehicle as written in the appropriate regulations, then I don't give a stuff what the incompetent DVLA refer to it on the V5, or what the rules for VAT recovery and any other sundry b
ks people dredge up says, such stuff is irrelevant. If it meets all the definition as written then it qualifies as a dual purpose vehicle and thus the higher limits apply.FULL STOP. Rule off.
GoneAnon said:
The V5 shows if it is a goods vehicle or a car. Look for N1 - that's a van!
Vito is still available as a Traveliner. No VAT recovery (unless bought exclusively for business use), higher road tax, and car speed limit just like the Viano.
Vito panel van and Dualiner are commercials, allow VAT recovery for VAT-registered buyers, have van road tax, and get the lower speed limit.
And for the pedants, I know it is Vehicle Excise Duty but if I MUST pay tax to use my car on the road, I don't care what you want to call it because, to me, it is road tax. End of.
When was the last time you were given any of this information whilst hiring a vehicle?Vito is still available as a Traveliner. No VAT recovery (unless bought exclusively for business use), higher road tax, and car speed limit just like the Viano.
Vito panel van and Dualiner are commercials, allow VAT recovery for VAT-registered buyers, have van road tax, and get the lower speed limit.
And for the pedants, I know it is Vehicle Excise Duty but if I MUST pay tax to use my car on the road, I don't care what you want to call it because, to me, it is road tax. End of.
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