Car has 9 inch rust hole 8 months after buying from a dealer
Discussion
drew.h said:
At the time I bought this car I was in no fit state to properly inspect it, so I thought I'd go to a dealer so I wouldn't end up buying a lemon.
Honestly OP, may I suggest that you go back to the top and read what you have written and then consider whether you should make any further posts on this subject?You bought a cheap car from, I strongly suspect (at this level), a "back street" dealer and you didn't examine at it first? Did you buy lottery tickets the same day, because if so you probably took a similar level of punt on both actions.
You are flogging a horse which is not only dead but which has been made into dog chews, Araldite and supermarket ready meals. It's not going to come back to life.
CAPP0 said:
Honestly OP, may I suggest that you go back to the top and read what you have written and then consider whether you should make any further posts on this subject?
You bought a cheap car from, I strongly suspect (at this level), a "back street" dealer and you didn't examine at it first? Did you buy lottery tickets the same day, because if so you probably took a similar level of punt on both actions.
You are flogging a horse which is not only dead but which has been made into dog chews, Araldite and supermarket ready meals. It's not going to come back to life.
Two weeks after a serious car accident (non-fault) I was given a pay out for my pickup and the hire car was taken away. I pretty much had a day to buy a car. I couldn't inspect the car because I was (still am) in a lot of pain. I thought I would get some protection buying from a car dealer, which I did with the Saab. Unfortunately I've had this Shogun 8 months before I noticed the problems. I've learnt my lesson.You bought a cheap car from, I strongly suspect (at this level), a "back street" dealer and you didn't examine at it first? Did you buy lottery tickets the same day, because if so you probably took a similar level of punt on both actions.
You are flogging a horse which is not only dead but which has been made into dog chews, Araldite and supermarket ready meals. It's not going to come back to life.
There was a lot of negativity with the Saab when I posted the problem on here. I was told I wouldn't get my money back, but I did.
There is generally a lot of negativity here. The first few replies often set the tone for how the thread will go.
If I'd paid dealer money for a car with a big hole in it I'd not be too happy. Dealer's sat there with your money you're sitting there screwed.
No way a 9 inch hole appeared in 9 months - did the dealer MOT it? If it is definitely an MOT fail you could try to apply pressure that way. i.e. it was a bent MOT.
If I'd paid dealer money for a car with a big hole in it I'd not be too happy. Dealer's sat there with your money you're sitting there screwed.
No way a 9 inch hole appeared in 9 months - did the dealer MOT it? If it is definitely an MOT fail you could try to apply pressure that way. i.e. it was a bent MOT.
There is a lot of realism on here given the gulf in expectations vs rights vs enforcing those rights.
And from your suggestion, proving it might have been an MOT failure 9 months ago would also be hard without (costly) reports / low cost small claims.
As the OP hasn't even had a polite initial conversation with the seller yet, all a bit of a moot point.
And from your suggestion, proving it might have been an MOT failure 9 months ago would also be hard without (costly) reports / low cost small claims.
As the OP hasn't even had a polite initial conversation with the seller yet, all a bit of a moot point.
If there's a dealer out there selling s
t cars and handing out worthless MOT's then I encourage OP to do something about it.
A lot of people focus on the fact that it was an older and cheaper car. Who cares. We're not all loaded. 1K to one man might be like 10K to another or £100K to Alan Sugar. The dealer chose to buy that car and sell it again for a profit. The dealer no doubt paid feck all for it and took on the risk that it was a lemon to turn a profit. The dealer is the experienced expert in buying and selling cars here not the OP and as such carries more responsibility both legally and morally. The OP paid more for the car than buying privately because he wanted to take advantage of that experience and expertise and be covered by a warranty. Do people not deserve recompence because they can't afford a more expensive car?
t cars and handing out worthless MOT's then I encourage OP to do something about it.A lot of people focus on the fact that it was an older and cheaper car. Who cares. We're not all loaded. 1K to one man might be like 10K to another or £100K to Alan Sugar. The dealer chose to buy that car and sell it again for a profit. The dealer no doubt paid feck all for it and took on the risk that it was a lemon to turn a profit. The dealer is the experienced expert in buying and selling cars here not the OP and as such carries more responsibility both legally and morally. The OP paid more for the car than buying privately because he wanted to take advantage of that experience and expertise and be covered by a warranty. Do people not deserve recompence because they can't afford a more expensive car?
buggalugs said:
If there's a dealer out there selling st cars and handing out worthless MOT's then I encourage OP to do something about it.
A lot of people focus on the fact that it was an older and cheaper car. Who cares. We're not all loaded. 1K to one man might be like 10K to another or £100K to Alan Sugar. The dealer chose to buy that car and sell it again for a profit. The dealer no doubt paid feck all for it and took on the risk that it was a lemon to turn a profit. The dealer is the experienced expert in buying and selling cars here not the OP and as such carries more responsibility both legally and morally. The OP paid more for the car than buying privately because he wanted to take advantage of that experience and expertise and be covered by a warranty. Do people not deserve recompence because they can't afford a more expensive car?
To rephrase the last line of your comment: t cars and handing out worthless MOT's then I encourage OP to do something about it.A lot of people focus on the fact that it was an older and cheaper car. Who cares. We're not all loaded. 1K to one man might be like 10K to another or £100K to Alan Sugar. The dealer chose to buy that car and sell it again for a profit. The dealer no doubt paid feck all for it and took on the risk that it was a lemon to turn a profit. The dealer is the experienced expert in buying and selling cars here not the OP and as such carries more responsibility both legally and morally. The OP paid more for the car than buying privately because he wanted to take advantage of that experience and expertise and be covered by a warranty. Do people not deserve recompence because they can't afford a more expensive car?
what buggalugs is inferring said:
Do people not deserve a car as good as a new one when they pay very little for a tired worn out one
Just have a think about that, the OP will have paid a grand or two for a well worn out Shogun, which, when I was selling them were £33,000 each new. So he's paid between 1/33rd and 1/16th of the price when new. Do you think it will have no problems for that kind of money? Is that realistic? Really? Your comment about people not all being loaded and the amount of money they have makes no difference. If you are poor and the best hotel you can afford is a grimy b&b for £20 a night would you expect it to be like Claridges because that's all you can afford? If you only have the money to live in a grim ex council estate in the North East do you think your home will be like a £5m mansion in a leafy village in the Cotswolds? If you eat at McDonalds because it's what you can afford are you astonished to find the dining experience doesn't live up to a Michelin starred restaurant?
TL:DR Champagne tastes and lemonade pockets.
Providing he has actually talked to the seller to give them a chance to look at it.
SOGA is there as a piece of legislation to protect consumers, but also, old cars are that, old cars.
We don't even know if it is an MOT failure yet, and the OP doesn't seem to have talked to the seller to give them a chance to respond?
SOGA is there as a piece of legislation to protect consumers, but also, old cars are that, old cars.
We don't even know if it is an MOT failure yet, and the OP doesn't seem to have talked to the seller to give them a chance to respond?
markmullen said:
Just have a think about that, the OP will have paid a grand or two for a well worn out Shogun, which, when I was selling them were £33,000 each new. So he's paid between 1/33rd and 1/16th of the price when new. Do you think it will have no problems for that kind of money? Is that realistic? Really?
Your comment about people not all being loaded and the amount of money they have makes no difference. If you are poor and the best hotel you can afford is a grimy b&b for £20 a night would you expect it to be like Claridges because that's all you can afford? If you only have the money to live in a grim ex council estate in the North East do you think your home will be like a £5m mansion in a leafy village in the Cotswolds? If you eat at McDonalds because it's what you can afford are you astonished to find the dining experience doesn't live up to a Michelin starred restaurant?
TL:DR Champagne tastes and lemonade pockets.
I can understand on a cheap car something like bad tyre, turbo going, clutch or general mechanical failure that's fair enough and to be expected and not really avoided on an older car.Your comment about people not all being loaded and the amount of money they have makes no difference. If you are poor and the best hotel you can afford is a grimy b&b for £20 a night would you expect it to be like Claridges because that's all you can afford? If you only have the money to live in a grim ex council estate in the North East do you think your home will be like a £5m mansion in a leafy village in the Cotswolds? If you eat at McDonalds because it's what you can afford are you astonished to find the dining experience doesn't live up to a Michelin starred restaurant?
TL:DR Champagne tastes and lemonade pockets.
However what I would not expect no matter the price when buying from a dealer is for a car with a valid full MOT to have a 9" bodged rust whole on a suspension strut when they were meant to have inspected the car. Agree OP was silly not to check but even so would expect some comeback as the car should have never been on the forecourt in the first place in that state.
greggy50 said:
I can understand on a cheap car something like bad tyre, turbo going, clutch or general mechanical failure that's fair enough and to be expected and not really avoided on an older car.
However what I would not expect no matter the price when buying from a dealer is for a car with a valid full MOT to have a 9" bodged rust whole on a suspension strut when they were meant to have inspected the car. Agree OP was silly not to check but even so would expect some comeback as the car should have never been on the forecourt in the first place in that state.
What does "full" MOT mean? However what I would not expect no matter the price when buying from a dealer is for a car with a valid full MOT to have a 9" bodged rust whole on a suspension strut when they were meant to have inspected the car. Agree OP was silly not to check but even so would expect some comeback as the car should have never been on the forecourt in the first place in that state.
At best it's got 25% of an MOT, no?
Lets see a photo of the problem OP.
SpeckledJim said:
What does "full" MOT mean?
At best it's got 25% of an MOT, no?
Lets see a photo of the problem OP.
Had the car for 9 months and it would not pass an MOT so assume upon purchase it was very close to having a full 12 month ticket no? At best it's got 25% of an MOT, no?
Lets see a photo of the problem OP.
Therefore does raise the question it may have been a slightly dodgy MOT and chucked on the forecourt cheap to get rid of it...
greggy50 said:
... a car with a valid full MOT to have a 9" bodged rust whole on a suspension strut ...
a: OP hasn't said dealer MOT'd the car, or when the MOT expiresb: Hole is only 9" because OP has gone mad with a wire drill
c: "Bodged" ??? OP hasn't said that.
d: "On a suspension strut" - No, on the inner wing last I heard, and it's not clear that's structural yet.
e: He's had the car for 8 months: Plenty long enough from a car to go from "roadworthy" to "not roadworthy". (And there's no stage in between those two)
greggy50 said:
SpeckledJim said:
What does "full" MOT mean?
At best it's got 25% of an MOT, no?
Lets see a photo of the problem OP.
Had the car for 9 months and it would not pass an MOT so assume upon purchase it was very close to having a full 12 month ticket no? At best it's got 25% of an MOT, no?
Lets see a photo of the problem OP.
Therefore does raise the question it may have been a slightly dodgy MOT and chucked on the forecourt cheap to get rid of it...
My point is that calling an MOT with only 3 months remaining 'full' is not really very accurate. And, whether the MOT is dodgy or legit, it's entirely possible the trader didn't know it was there. Taking it back after a week to say 'look at this bloody great hole' would have been reasonable.
I'm sure after 9 months on an old cheap Shogun that the trader has no remaining obligations whatsoever to that car, barring something related to its ownership/identity/registration status.
Typical to blame the dealers isn't it?
Just as its possible the dealer knew it was a rotter. Its also possible that it was bought with MOT by the dealer.
It took 9 MONTHS of use and liberal use of a wire brush before the problem was revealed! Is it not possible that the bodge was good enough to hide itself from the dealer and MOT person before 9 months of use and an attack from a wire brush?
I think its been said: Champagne taste, beer money. Buy a old car prepare to have issues. Buy an old off roader and not even have someone to help look it over then you aren't helping yourself. 4x4s are used and abused and fixed on the cheap where possible that's how they are, unless you pay top dollar surely.
Just as its possible the dealer knew it was a rotter. Its also possible that it was bought with MOT by the dealer.
It took 9 MONTHS of use and liberal use of a wire brush before the problem was revealed! Is it not possible that the bodge was good enough to hide itself from the dealer and MOT person before 9 months of use and an attack from a wire brush?
I think its been said: Champagne taste, beer money. Buy a old car prepare to have issues. Buy an old off roader and not even have someone to help look it over then you aren't helping yourself. 4x4s are used and abused and fixed on the cheap where possible that's how they are, unless you pay top dollar surely.
silentbrown said:
a: OP hasn't said dealer MOT'd the car, or when the MOT expires
b: Hole is only 9" because OP has gone mad with a wire drill
c: "Bodged" ??? OP hasn't said that.
d: "On a suspension strut" - No, on the inner wing last I heard, and it's not clear that's structural yet.
e: He's had the car for 8 months: Plenty long enough from a car to go from "roadworthy" to "not roadworthy". (And there's no stage in between those two)
a) OP said would fail an MOT (I agree) owned the car 9 months so the car must have had a fairly new MOT on purchase unless I am missing something... b: Hole is only 9" because OP has gone mad with a wire drill
c: "Bodged" ??? OP hasn't said that.
d: "On a suspension strut" - No, on the inner wing last I heard, and it's not clear that's structural yet.
e: He's had the car for 8 months: Plenty long enough from a car to go from "roadworthy" to "not roadworthy". (And there's no stage in between those two)
b) How do you know he has gone mad? Sounds like it was covered up vaugely to reveal a huge hole tried to paint it and pushed through hardly attacked it...
c) Not sure how a giant hole covered in waxoil can be considered anything over than a bodge myself certainly not a quality repair.
d)Inner wing on must cars is basically by the suspension strut and would be an MOT fail appolgies for that mis-read the opening post slightly they are still very close and if hole really is 9" can't be far away from being by the strut at all.
e) I own a classic mini and f
k me even that could not oxidise to that state in 8 months. If its a 9" hole its been there for a bloody long time they don't just appear from nowhere it would take a couple of years of corrosion and moisture to get that bad. I think pictures would be useful to see the extent of the damage as 9" seems fairly unbelievable to me that really is a huge hole to have in a car. Even if dealer didn't MOT still think holds some liability as even a basic inspection should have revealed it...
Not bias against dealers purchased a car before and had a clutch go 7 weeks down the line could have been an arse and claimed but knew it was nothing they could have picked up so fixed it myself. Also when first got my MINI it was a bodged mess but this was private so s
t happens.Cheap car or not don't think its acceptable for a dealer to sell a car as road worthy for a then massive hole in it to appear near a suspension component as its not safe. If the engine blows up or a diff or whatever fair enoughs its an old car as said but this is clearly a underlying problem that has been with the car a while.
If pictures show a tiny hole that's clearly been hacked at however will retract the above!
greggy50 said:
e) I own a classic mini and fk me even that could not oxidise to that state in 8 months. If its a 9" hole its been there for a bloody long time they don't just appear from nowhere it would take a couple of years of corrosion and moisture to get that bad.
My first car was a Metro on a B plate. It was bought from a family member with 10 months MOT on it.k me even that could not oxidise to that state in 8 months. If its a 9" hole its been there for a bloody long time they don't just appear from nowhere it would take a couple of years of corrosion and moisture to get that bad. Come MOT time and the very same MOT guy finds the sills to be more holey than Jesus Christ giving the pope a piggy back at Christmas. It can happen.
spats said:
My first car was a Metro on a B plate. It was bought from a family member with 10 months MOT on it.
Come MOT time and the very same MOT guy finds the sills to be more holey than Jesus Christ giving the pope a piggy back at Christmas. It can happen.
My MINI lived on the drive for 3 years and was driven in all weather and always passed the MOT okay it was only about 18 months ago the rot set in hence why I took it off the road for a rebuild.Come MOT time and the very same MOT guy finds the sills to be more holey than Jesus Christ giving the pope a piggy back at Christmas. It can happen.
I have heard that Metros are even worse than MINIs for rust though...
drew.h said:
I will never again buy from a dealer, I've had far better cars buying blind on eBay.
I am not supprised at all that you feel like this but it is folly to base your opinions of car dealers on a single experience, even if it was two cars. Personal experience is frequently not a good basis for making decisions, even though it is the method most often used my people.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff