Broken Tool

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Discussion

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
....the shop assistant doesn't know whether the item is two months or two years old without a proof of purchase.
OP says item has only been sold for 8mths.

Surprised a big name won't change one of its own branded products.
For all the 'big name' knows, the OP might have bought it 'spares or repair' from eBay for 99p, and is he a chancer.

Asking someone who'd like a refund/replacement for a proof of purchase, is exactly how the law lies for this reason. The shop is under no obligation unless the OP can demonstrate somehow that he is not a chancer as I have described above.

The OP can stomp his feet and burn the company on the internet, but he can get exactly what he wants if he returns with his receipt or a bank or credit card statement showing the payment made to the shop.

singlecoil

33,313 posts

245 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
....the shop assistant doesn't know whether the item is two months or two years old without a proof of purchase.
OP says item has only been sold for 8mths.

Surprised a big name won't change one of its own branded products.
For all the 'big name' knows, the OP might have bought it 'spares or repair' from eBay for 99p, and is he a chancer.

Asking someone who'd like a refund/replacement for a proof of purchase, is exactly how the law lies for this reason. The shop is under no obligation unless the OP can demonstrate somehow that he is not a chancer as I have described above.

The OP can stomp his feet and burn the company on the internet, but he can get exactly what he wants if he returns with his receipt or a bank or credit card statement showing the payment made to the shop.
Pretty unlikely, considering the item was still under guarantee.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When I read the thread title, I thought it would be better under "Health Matters".
With replies recomending Viagra...

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
singlecoil said:
Pretty unlikely, considering the item was still under guarantee.
But how do they know this?

If they don't know when he bought it, or even if he did buy it directly from them, how can they possibly know it is under guarantee still?

I've been this position before and as such I always keep reciepts for stuff like this now.

allergictocheese

1,290 posts

112 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Did anybody else see the thread title and think "I hope that's Ed Miliband in 5 month's time"?

lbc

3,212 posts

216 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
singlecoil said:
Pretty unlikely, considering the item was still under guarantee.
But how do they know this?

If they don't know when he bought it, or even if he did buy it directly from them, how can they possibly know it is under guarantee still?

I've been this position before and as such I always keep reciepts for stuff like this now.
The OP could have stolen it, used it, and broke it.

I have seen various TV Police shows about shoplifting where the most common trick is to steal items, and then return them to the store and claim they are faulty in order to get a cash refund.

singlecoil

33,313 posts

245 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Devil2575 said:
singlecoil said:
Pretty unlikely, considering the item was still under guarantee.
But how do they know this?
Because the item has only been on the market 8 months.

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
singlecoil said:
JustinP1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
....the shop assistant doesn't know whether the item is two months or two years old without a proof of purchase.
OP says item has only been sold for 8mths.

Surprised a big name won't change one of its own branded products.
For all the 'big name' knows, the OP might have bought it 'spares or repair' from eBay for 99p, and is he a chancer.

Asking someone who'd like a refund/replacement for a proof of purchase, is exactly how the law lies for this reason. The shop is under no obligation unless the OP can demonstrate somehow that he is not a chancer as I have described above.

The OP can stomp his feet and burn the company on the internet, but he can get exactly what he wants if he returns with his receipt or a bank or credit card statement showing the payment made to the shop.
Pretty unlikely, considering the item was still under guarantee.
The shop don't know it's under guarantee!

The shop haven't told him to bugger off. From what the OP has said, he's arrived at the shop requesting a replacement or refund without any proof of purchase. The shop have helped him prove that by offering to go through their records.

All the OP needs to do is return with a receipt, a bank statement, or the date he bought it. I don't think that's unreasonable.

singlecoil

33,313 posts

245 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
The shop don't know it's under guarantee!
I took this to mean that the product has only been available for 8 months-

CMYKguru said:
They keep insisting i need to know the exact date and time i bought it which in my view is complete nonsense as the item has been sold for 8 months and is well in the warranty period.
But if that's not what it means, then maybe it isn't under guarantee.

Liquid Tuna

1,398 posts

155 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Some people on this thread are either being deliberately argumentative or just stupid. How does the store know it was bought from them and within the warranty period, if the OP has NO proof at all of when he bought it?

The store doesn't need and won't be asking for a receipt as the only proof, just something they can search by - date, transaction number, anything. A bank statement will show the date and time it was bought and they can search their system, for example.

As for the lifetime warranty example, they probably will swap it regardless of whether you have proof or not because there's no time limit on the return policy rolleyes


Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
The shop don't know it's under guarantee!
Yes they do - the item has only been sold for 8 months.

JustinP1 said:
All the OP needs to do is return with a receipt, a bank statement, or the date he bought it. I don't think that's unreasonable.
It's not unreasonable, but bearing in mind the time the product has been on sale, plus that it's the shop's own brand and that it's a fairly low-cost item, I'd be a bit dismayed if it was me and they wouldn't swap it. The store will debit their supplier for the cost anyway.

Having said all that, I doubt I'd bother taking a £20 item back. There's a lesson for the OP here that if he cares enough to take such things back, then he needs care enough to start keeping receipts.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
I'm in a similar boat. My Hitachi drill is 18 months old, it gave up the ghost when I was drilling some holes in the back door to fit a cat flap, I was most annoyed. I do however have proof of purchase.

My problem is, the tool only has a 12 month warranty as standard and you have to register on their website for the extended three year warranty (free).

I've sent it in to them and await the outcome.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Liquid Tuna said:
Some people on this thread are either being deliberately argumentative or just stupid. How does the store know it was bought from them and within the warranty period, if the OP has NO proof at all of when he bought it?
It's only been sold for 8 months and it's their own brand.

Which one are you - deliberately argumentative or just stupid?

allergictocheese

1,290 posts

112 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
I'm in a similar boat. My Hitachi drill is 18 months old, it gave up the ghost when I was drilling some holes in the back door to fit a cat flap, I was most annoyed. I do however have proof of purchase.

My problem is, the tool only has a 12 month warranty as standard and you have to register on their website for the extended three year warranty (free).

I've sent it in to them and await the outcome.
You have statutory rights under the sale of goods act, as in the goods need to be of satisfactory quality and durability. If the fault occurred within the first 6 months of ownership the burden of proof would be on the retailer to prove the fault wasn't there when you bought the item. After 6 months the burden is on you to show that it was (on the balance of probabilities).

I'd be surprised if Hitachi didn't back up their product with a repair or replacement FOC, unless they allege misuse.

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
The shop don't know it's under guarantee!
Yes they do - the item has only been sold for 8 months.

JustinP1 said:
All the OP needs to do is return with a receipt, a bank statement, or the date he bought it. I don't think that's unreasonable.
It's not unreasonable, but bearing in mind the time the product has been on sale, plus that it's the shop's own brand and that it's a fairly low-cost item, I'd be a bit dismayed if it was me and they wouldn't swap it. The store will debit their supplier for the cost anyway.

Having said all that, I doubt I'd bother taking a £20 item back. There's a lesson for the OP here that if he cares enough to take such things back, then he needs care enough to start keeping receipts.
All of that I agree with.

To give a story at the opposite end of the DIY shop scale, a while back I walked into B&Q with about 16 energy saving lightbulbs, that were bought for £10 each. 18 months old, but with a stated 5 year life or whatever on the boxes. One after the other, the bases were cracking, probably through heat, that let in water and killed the bulb.

They looked at it, and started to blame the light fittings. However, I was ready for that. It was then I was able to produce the receipts for the two different design light fittings, both from B&Q.

£160 back in my bank account in two minutes.


If you want to call upon your consumer rights, put all of your receipts in a shoebox for the year, then at the end of the year, mark up the box with the year and put it in the loft. It's a lot less argument in the long run, and will save you a lot of money.

It's good to know that currently a lot of retailers are looking at their obligations under the SoGA and the 6 year limitation period, and using the defining point that if it would be repaired under warranty, they take that obligation on for a reasonable time into the 6 year period.

Liquid Tuna

1,398 posts

155 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
Liquid Tuna said:
Some people on this thread are either being deliberately argumentative or just stupid. How does the store know it was bought from them and within the warranty period, if the OP has NO proof at all of when he bought it?
It's only been sold for 8 months and it's their own brand.

Which one are you - deliberately argumentative or just stupid?
And how will the shop worker, even the store manager know that? They could have a product list that's hundreds of thousands of products in size! Do you really think they will know the date when each one was sold from? Just because THAT store has only stocked it for 8 months, doesn't mean another local store hasn't stocked it for the last 10 years!

I won't ask you whether you're being argumentative or stupid, I can guess.

andburg

7,214 posts

168 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
From my time in retail customer service I was guided along the following path..

If an item is faulty and cannot be sent away for repair then in order to refuse replacement or refund the pressure is on the retailer to prove either..

a. Goods not faulty, misuse/negligence caused failure or product works
b. Goods were not purchased

Now option a is pretty much impossible, but with modern stock management systems option 2 is the sticker.

System records everything on the receipt, so cashier, till, time, date, list of items, payment method. We wouldn't expect a customer to remember everything after 8 months but if they gave us an approximate date we could at see if we had sold the item that day / week / month and then pull up the receipt. To confirm you could then ask the customer to provide the card that was used for payment.

If the customer brought in a bank statement it just made it easier, I would expect all major retailers to have similar systems.

Store is likely just being plain lazy or you aren't providing information that matches up with their systems and they can't check another store in such detail.

Take it to another store and you'll probably have a very different experience, the training given to staff varies hugely between stores.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
andburg said:
Now option a is pretty much impossible, but with modern stock management systems option 2 is the sticker.

System records everything on the receipt, so cashier, till, time, date, list of items, payment method. We wouldn't expect a customer to remember everything after 8 months but if they gave us an approximate date we could at see if we had sold the item that day / week / month and then pull up the receipt.
...and could you also look up when the item was introduced / first stocked?

Silent1

19,761 posts

234 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
andburg said:
Now option a is pretty much impossible, but with modern stock management systems option 2 is the sticker.

System records everything on the receipt, so cashier, till, time, date, list of items, payment method. We wouldn't expect a customer to remember everything after 8 months but if they gave us an approximate date we could at see if we had sold the item that day / week / month and then pull up the receipt.
...and could you also look up when the item was introduced / first stocked?
They could but if it's stolen that doesn't matter, without a receipt or some form of proof of purchase they can't be sure.

andburg

7,214 posts

168 months

Monday 19th January 2015
quotequote all
Silent1 said:
Sheepshanks said:
andburg said:
Now option a is pretty much impossible, but with modern stock management systems option 2 is the sticker.

System records everything on the receipt, so cashier, till, time, date, list of items, payment method. We wouldn't expect a customer to remember everything after 8 months but if they gave us an approximate date we could at see if we had sold the item that day / week / month and then pull up the receipt.
...and could you also look up when the item was introduced / first stocked?
They could but if it's stolen that doesn't matter, without a receipt or some form of proof of purchase they can't be sure.
exactly the point, they're not saying its not faulty or its older than you say, they just want more information to show it was purchased