Neighbour planning permission
Discussion
Hey chaps - firstly not sure if this is the right forum but here goes.
Unfortunately I find myself with a problem with a neighbour who we have got on with very well with in the past but now we're coming into some conflict.
Basically - there's a 2 acre paddock. Previously it had a small 2 horse and tack room wooden stable on it.
New owners decided to take it down and put a much larger structure, still wooden, nice patio doors and supposedly so it can be used as an home office etc. It's about 300-400% larger than the previous structure and is not a stables.
Having checked the planning - permission was given for the demolition of the existing stables and the erection of a storage building for tractor, equipment and seeds. And in detail it specifically says shall be used for the keeping of equipment and produce incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house and shall not be used for any commercial or other activities. Reason to avoid the introduction of a commercial or otherwise adverse use in this location.
The construction is finished. They're doing the internal stuff at the moment. Electrics, water
So what do I do. I can't let them just get away with this. It's going to be detrimental to my property. And who knows they'll try and make it a proper house at some point ?!
Advice welcome !
Unfortunately I find myself with a problem with a neighbour who we have got on with very well with in the past but now we're coming into some conflict.
Basically - there's a 2 acre paddock. Previously it had a small 2 horse and tack room wooden stable on it.
New owners decided to take it down and put a much larger structure, still wooden, nice patio doors and supposedly so it can be used as an home office etc. It's about 300-400% larger than the previous structure and is not a stables.
Having checked the planning - permission was given for the demolition of the existing stables and the erection of a storage building for tractor, equipment and seeds. And in detail it specifically says shall be used for the keeping of equipment and produce incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house and shall not be used for any commercial or other activities. Reason to avoid the introduction of a commercial or otherwise adverse use in this location.
The construction is finished. They're doing the internal stuff at the moment. Electrics, water
So what do I do. I can't let them just get away with this. It's going to be detrimental to my property. And who knows they'll try and make it a proper house at some point ?!
Advice welcome !
Edited by woof on Wednesday 21st January 14:00
Edited by woof on Wednesday 21st January 14:23
woof said:
So what do I do. I can't let them just get away with this. It's going to be detrimental to my property. And who knows they'll try and make it a proper house at some point ?!
Advise welcome !
Contact the planning department and inform them that you believe a breach of planning has taken place.Advise welcome !
garyhun said:
woof said:
So what do I do. I can't let them just get away with this. It's going to be detrimental to my property. And who knows they'll try and make it a proper house at some point ?!
Advise welcome !
Contact the planning department and inform them that you believe a breach of planning has taken place.Advise welcome !
said:
And in detail it specifically says shall be used for the keeping of equipment and produce identical to the enjoyment of the dwelling house
Not sure what that means exactly?However if no change of use, a stable on a paddock should remain a stable, as a paddock won't be part of domestic curtilage (presumably) and be designated agricultural land?
Follow this link
https://www.broxbourne.gov.uk/webform/breach-plann...
Fill out the form with as much detail as possible. I would also then chase up with a phone call.
Fortunately, planners are pretty tight with this sort of thing and by bringing it to their attention it will get dealt with if it is indeed a breach of the planning permission.
Let us know how you get on.
https://www.broxbourne.gov.uk/webform/breach-plann...
Fill out the form with as much detail as possible. I would also then chase up with a phone call.
Fortunately, planners are pretty tight with this sort of thing and by bringing it to their attention it will get dealt with if it is indeed a breach of the planning permission.
Let us know how you get on.
MacW said:
woof said:
I should also add - the area only had a few residences in it. It's rural and it would be 100% obvious who put the complaint in
Then you have no choice but to talk to them.Actually, you could burn it down I guess but that might be a bit extreme.
Your choice.
I wouldn't worry too much about them knowing.
I am sure they won't consider you too much when in years to come they use the current use/prescriptive rights to apply to build there. As unlikely as that is, you need to protect yourself and your asset.
FWIW, there are a LOT of people out there who love to bring this sort of thing to the councils attention. So, just deny it was you.
I am sure they won't consider you too much when in years to come they use the current use/prescriptive rights to apply to build there. As unlikely as that is, you need to protect yourself and your asset.
FWIW, there are a LOT of people out there who love to bring this sort of thing to the councils attention. So, just deny it was you.
hornetrider said:
said:
And in detail it specifically says shall be used for the keeping of equipment and produce identical to the enjoyment of the dwelling house
Not sure what that means exactly?I think if it is being used for a home office that probably wouldn't be a breach of the condition if the wording is 'incidental' and the building is no larger than it should be.
Hub said:
hornetrider said:
said:
And in detail it specifically says shall be used for the keeping of equipment and produce identical to the enjoyment of the dwelling house
Not sure what that means exactly?I think if it is being used for a home office that probably wouldn't be a breach of the condition if the wording is 'incidental' and the building is no larger than it should be.
So you think that even if it was built to be a tractor, equipment and seed store (they don't have a tractor or any farming equipment) and the building isn't fit for that purpose, that it still is OK to use it as a home office, photographic studio ?
Edited by woof on Wednesday 21st January 14:28
woof said:
I should also add - the area only has a few residences in it. It's rural and it would be 100% obvious who put the complaint in
They wouldn't know who it was necessarily, as unless the Planning Officer actually tells them there was a complaint they won't know. A planning officer can inspect a building of his/her own volition to check that it complies with what was agreed.If they couldn't there wouldn't be much point in having planning officer in the first place.
FrankAbagnale said:
I wouldn't worry too much about them knowing.
I am sure they won't consider you too much when in years to come they use the current use/prescriptive rights to apply to build there. As unlikely as that is, you need to protect yourself and your asset.
FWIW, there are a LOT of people out there who love to bring this sort of thing to the councils attention. So, just deny it was you.
All of this. Besides, the Authority don't need to let them know so you can happily deny it. It happened with an extension on our house by the previous owner. The neighbours complained to the authority that they hadn't been consulted when the 8ft wall went up at their boundary and the authority pursued him. He got retrospective though. This case sounds like they probably wouldn't given the nature of its change of use.I am sure they won't consider you too much when in years to come they use the current use/prescriptive rights to apply to build there. As unlikely as that is, you need to protect yourself and your asset.
FWIW, there are a LOT of people out there who love to bring this sort of thing to the councils attention. So, just deny it was you.
Handy guide here - http://plainview.co.uk/ancillary-vs-incidental/177...
planview said:
Planning Definition
There is so much case law examining ancillary/incidental it is difficult to briefly summarise – but it is along the lines of:
Ancillary (needs planning permission) = generally anything you (as a person ) could do normally in a standard house as built; e.g. eat, sleep, sit comfortably, pray, study, watch tv, shower.
Incidental (permitted development) = generally everything else. Including storage, swimming, bowling, gym, art studio, or something that can be classed as a hobby. An incidental use is “parasitic” on the primary use- it cannot exist without it. Also ancillary use can be incorporated as long as it’s subordinate to the incidental, i.e. shower room for gym or small bar area- these are seen to not materially extend the normal living accommodation at the property.
TBH im struggling to see what the fuss is about?There is so much case law examining ancillary/incidental it is difficult to briefly summarise – but it is along the lines of:
Ancillary (needs planning permission) = generally anything you (as a person ) could do normally in a standard house as built; e.g. eat, sleep, sit comfortably, pray, study, watch tv, shower.
Incidental (permitted development) = generally everything else. Including storage, swimming, bowling, gym, art studio, or something that can be classed as a hobby. An incidental use is “parasitic” on the primary use- it cannot exist without it. Also ancillary use can be incorporated as long as it’s subordinate to the incidental, i.e. shower room for gym or small bar area- these are seen to not materially extend the normal living accommodation at the property.
barryrs said:
Handy guide here - http://plainview.co.uk/ancillary-vs-incidental/177...
Thanks - that's really useful.planview said:
Planning Definition
There is so much case law examining ancillary/incidental it is difficult to briefly summarise – but it is along the lines of:
Ancillary (needs planning permission) = generally anything you (as a person ) could do normally in a standard house as built; e.g. eat, sleep, sit comfortably, pray, study, watch tv, shower.
Incidental (permitted development) = generally everything else. Including storage, swimming, bowling, gym, art studio, or something that can be classed as a hobby. An incidental use is “parasitic” on the primary use- it cannot exist without it. Also ancillary use can be incorporated as long as it’s subordinate to the incidental, i.e. shower room for gym or small bar area- these are seen to not materially extend the normal living accommodation at the property.
TBH im struggling to see what the fuss is about?There is so much case law examining ancillary/incidental it is difficult to briefly summarise – but it is along the lines of:
Ancillary (needs planning permission) = generally anything you (as a person ) could do normally in a standard house as built; e.g. eat, sleep, sit comfortably, pray, study, watch tv, shower.
Incidental (permitted development) = generally everything else. Including storage, swimming, bowling, gym, art studio, or something that can be classed as a hobby. An incidental use is “parasitic” on the primary use- it cannot exist without it. Also ancillary use can be incorporated as long as it’s subordinate to the incidental, i.e. shower room for gym or small bar area- these are seen to not materially extend the normal living accommodation at the property.
The issue is that a few years ago. The field was a paddock with some horses and a stables. It was a nice view looking out over the fields.
Effectively the paddock is now being used as an extension to a garden (not really an issue for me - though technically not allowed and possibly something they will attempt to change of use at some point) The nice little stables on it is now a not very in keeping large building. That is far from a stables, with nice veranda types doors and windows. My major concern is that give it a few years and the next thing we'll know is that it will become a dwelling.
AFAIK outbuildings come under permitted development so, unless there's a particular or local restriction, don't usually need planning permission.
It's good practice to ask the planning office though, and maybe they already have.
So my neighbour found when someone put up a large wooden building opposite the bottom of his garden.
As I say AFAIK....
It's good practice to ask the planning office though, and maybe they already have.
So my neighbour found when someone put up a large wooden building opposite the bottom of his garden.
As I say AFAIK....
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff