Fine for a dirty number plate?
Discussion
I'm asking you to explain, as you have so far not so done, why cleaning a plate is immoral.
Your style of debate centres around making an initial unsupported assumption, then basing the rest on top of it.
Literally, a tower without foundation.
I've asked you a hugely tedious number of times now to actually provide your reasoning, but the closest you've come is "nuance", which is not that helpful.
Along the way you've shown yourself to be a fairly shabby human being, but that just adds to the LOL's, really.
Your style of debate centres around making an initial unsupported assumption, then basing the rest on top of it.
Literally, a tower without foundation.
I've asked you a hugely tedious number of times now to actually provide your reasoning, but the closest you've come is "nuance", which is not that helpful.
Along the way you've shown yourself to be a fairly shabby human being, but that just adds to the LOL's, really.
LucreLout said:
Cooperman said:
What a truly pathetic thread this has turned into.
It has, but it was worth it, if only for this absolute gem of an insult:Dammit said:
Anyway, I'm going to bed, I'll leave you to finish off the cooking sherry before weeping over Pornhub until you pass out.
I don't know what would be more embarrassing.
Telling some bird you regularly bash one out over pornhub, or repeating some of the comments in this thread in real life conversation.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Mmmmm how emasculating. Spit on my face and call me Susan.anonymous said:
[redacted]
The irony of someone with over 27,000 posts accusing me of "trawling" the forums. I think it's safe to say I spend far less time on here than you do. I open some threads occasionally. Some are good. Some are bad. You don't find out until you open them! And we are blessed with the freedom to comment on such things.I've clearly made a mistake with my tongue-in-cheek post earlier on, I have now been sucked into this trainwreck of a thread. And I won't let it happen!
So good day to you. Whilst I won't reply on here again, I will at least read your response should you post one. Just please, I'm tender, be gentle with me.
LucreLout said:
9mm said:
I am not trying to hide my plates by not cleaning them. Not cleaning them is a simple consequence of that task being accorded zero priority when I clean the glass and lights. Whenever I wash the whole car, which is rare, the plates are included. It should follow from what I've just written that I'm not trying to evade prosecution for any crime. If I hit someone I will stop and am well aware of the severe penalties for failing to do so. In the unlikely event a camera couldn't read my plate, I wouldn't lose any sleep, but it's not the reason why I don't clean the car or the plate. I have a clean licence, low insurance premiums and have had (camera based) speeding convictions in the past.
That's a truthful answer. You may not believe it, which is your perogative, but I can assure you I have no inhibitions about admitting to things which may be illegal or upset people on an internet forum, with the obvious proviso that such an admission might incriminate me. For example, I recently posted on another thread about going no comment after an accident I was involved in. My view was that to do anything else would have incriminated me and that a prosecution would have served no purpose. I respect the right of others to take a different view.
I'm not sure, if the above were wholly true, that you'd be getting quite so het up.That's a truthful answer. You may not believe it, which is your perogative, but I can assure you I have no inhibitions about admitting to things which may be illegal or upset people on an internet forum, with the obvious proviso that such an admission might incriminate me. For example, I recently posted on another thread about going no comment after an accident I was involved in. My view was that to do anything else would have incriminated me and that a prosecution would have served no purpose. I respect the right of others to take a different view.
Dammit said:
It might strike you as absurd, but if your attitude became widespread then the usefulness of the number plate as a means to identify a vehicle would become seriously degraded - which would give a nice justification to always-on GPS telemetry logging where your car is at all times.
i.e. you are choosing to ignore the social contract that enables policing by consent, and inviting a more "forceful" method of ensuring compliance with the rules.
I'm not sure where that reasoning takes us. So I should keep my number plate clean for fear of an escalation of oppression if I don't?i.e. you are choosing to ignore the social contract that enables policing by consent, and inviting a more "forceful" method of ensuring compliance with the rules.
If this attitude became widespread, it might tell you something about most people's feelings towards the rule in question. In this eventuality (which I appreciate is hypothetical) where huge numbers of people allow their number plates to become illegibly dirty, can I not trust the state to consider whether, if so many people seem to want to evade it, the level of monitoring might be too much for most people's liking? That the state's rules have become out of kilter with people's views on the costs and benefits of requiring drivers to have number plates and to keep them clean? Can I not trust the state to consider that the right thing to do then might be to scale back its monitoring and/or remove the requirement for everybody to broadcast their identity? Or should I expect that the inevitable response of the state to such widespread disobedience will just be to reach for a bigger stick to hit everybody with?
Of course, I understand now.
People deliberately obscuring their numberplates to get off speeding tickets are in fact bravely striking a blow for freedom and civil liberties.
They are the modern suffragettes, reluctantly breaking the law to serve a higher moral purpose.
They are the black civil rights movement, refusing to sit at the back of the bus to highlight unjust and discriminatory laws.
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
People deliberately obscuring their numberplates to get off speeding tickets are in fact bravely striking a blow for freedom and civil liberties.
They are the modern suffragettes, reluctantly breaking the law to serve a higher moral purpose.
They are the black civil rights movement, refusing to sit at the back of the bus to highlight unjust and discriminatory laws.
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
v12Legs said:
Of course, I understand now.
People deliberately obscuring their numberplates to get off speeding tickets are in fact bravely striking a blow for freedom and civil liberties.
They are the modern suffragettes, reluctantly breaking the law to serve a higher moral purpose.
They are the black civil rights movement, refusing to sit at the back of the bus to highlight unjust and discriminatory laws.
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
Well put People deliberately obscuring their numberplates to get off speeding tickets are in fact bravely striking a blow for freedom and civil liberties.
They are the modern suffragettes, reluctantly breaking the law to serve a higher moral purpose.
They are the black civil rights movement, refusing to sit at the back of the bus to highlight unjust and discriminatory laws.
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You're right. In that context, the correct response from the Police would be to produce a damp rag and invite the driver to return his lights and plates to a visible and legible state again.But what about outside that context? What about the context where somebody is clearly and deliberately failing to clean the back and/or plate of their car?
v12Legs said:
Thank you for pointing this out to me.
Is this a response to my post?To be honest, when I wrote that I was struggling to imagine how the situation Dammit posited might actually come about. Notwithstanding how readily dirt builds up, particularly at this time of year, as I understand it it's pretty darn difficult to thwart number plate cameras and so it seemed to me that the only way we could really end up in a situation where everybody was choosing to thwart them was if something happened to convince large numbers of people that too much monitoring was going on. I'm not sure apathy by itself would be enough - maybe others think it could be. Either way, do please take note of "hypothetical"
.LucreLout said:
Having long ago lost a mate to hit and run, I often help these people be identifiable by giving the plate a wipe if I park next to one. The expressions of joy as the owner returns to a filthy car with a shinny legal plate rather give the game away as to what they're up to.
So the driver of the car that hit your mate escaped justice because the driver made a point of not washing his number plates?Is that why you now make a point of cleaning other peoples number plates?
SK425 said:
Do you genuinely only see the possibility of a self-serving motivation for those who have taken a different view to you in this thread? There are extremely good reasons why it's in everybody's interest for people to be discouraged from going round dobbing each other in for minor regulatory transgressions.
Again, no dobbing in, just a two second wipe with a tissue.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff