Clarification on AST notice period
Discussion
Rented a house 15 months ago on a 6 month AST, after the initial 6 months I have just kept paying rent.
I want to move out at the end of February and informed the agent of my intentions on the 20th Jan (The earliest that I knew).
The agent is saying that I can only give notice on the day I started the original contract (13th of the month) and must give 1 month's notice.
There is no notice period stated in the original 6 month AST contract, and I have neither signed nor agreed anything verbally since.
The contract does state that notice should be given on the 13th of the month.
The agent is suggesting that I need to pay for a full month from the 13th... My viewpoint is that as there is no set notice period stated in the contract, there is no set notice period... and I can give notice on the 13th, it will just be 2 weeks notice.
Anyone able to clarify?
Thanks, James
(Corrected from original post)
I want to move out at the end of February and informed the agent of my intentions on the 20th Jan (The earliest that I knew).
The agent is saying that I can only give notice on the day I started the original contract (13th of the month) and must give 1 month's notice.
There is no notice period stated in the original 6 month AST contract, and I have neither signed nor agreed anything verbally since.
The contract does state that notice should be given on the 13th of the month.
The agent is suggesting that I need to pay for a full month from the 13th... My viewpoint is that as there is no set notice period stated in the contract, there is no set notice period... and I can give notice on the 13th, it will just be 2 weeks notice.
Anyone able to clarify?
Thanks, James
(Corrected from original post)
Edited by jmsgld on Tuesday 27th January 18:45
Edited by jmsgld on Tuesday 27th January 18:48
The AST is something defined in law.
You and the LL both have rights which don't need to be stated in the contract, but you both have them in law.
He is correct, you need to give a full rental period's notice. So, if it's per calendar month, you need to give notice on or before the 13th. There's nothing stopping you giving (written) notice now, but it should state it is effective on Feb 13th, and you'll have to pay for the last month, that being until a month later.
You and the LL both have rights which don't need to be stated in the contract, but you both have them in law.
He is correct, you need to give a full rental period's notice. So, if it's per calendar month, you need to give notice on or before the 13th. There's nothing stopping you giving (written) notice now, but it should state it is effective on Feb 13th, and you'll have to pay for the last month, that being until a month later.
Your, Wrong agent is right, 1 calender months from your rent due date.
AST is standard you have assured period normally 6 months and then it would usually become periodic were buy 1 month applies for the tenant.
You issue 1 months notice normally from a rent due date.
Your landlord has to do two.
AST is standard you have assured period normally 6 months and then it would usually become periodic were buy 1 month applies for the tenant.
You issue 1 months notice normally from a rent due date.
Your landlord has to do two.
Edited by jbsportstech on Tuesday 27th January 16:31
Yep, that's where the confusion arose.
I pay rent on the 1st of the month prospectively (at the LL's request), but the rental period is defined as 14th-13th and hence notice must be given then.
How should the rent for the 1/2 month be worked out, as a proportion of the month of February or as a proportion of the year?
Thanks again, James
I pay rent on the 1st of the month prospectively (at the LL's request), but the rental period is defined as 14th-13th and hence notice must be given then.
How should the rent for the 1/2 month be worked out, as a proportion of the month of February or as a proportion of the year?
Thanks again, James
Even if you move out 1st of Feb you are liable to pay until the end of the rental period.
You need to pay the full month even if you move out halfway through unless you can come to another agreement.
This also includes all bills ie council tax so best to call the council and get a figure based on a moving out date of 13/feb and pay this so you can provide evidence to the LL that bills have been paid up.
You need to pay the full month even if you move out halfway through unless you can come to another agreement.
This also includes all bills ie council tax so best to call the council and get a figure based on a moving out date of 13/feb and pay this so you can provide evidence to the LL that bills have been paid up.
Edited by andburg on Tuesday 27th January 17:44
AST notice period is defined by the period at which you pay. If you paid weekly the tenant still gives 1x period and the LL 2x period (therefore 1 week / 2 weeks, etc.).
It's interesting that the LL requested you pay the 1st of every month. I'd take this as your AST agreement rather than your initial contract setup date which would mean that you'd move out the end of Feb, ensuring you don't overpay if you are in credit by half a month from the initial move in date.
It's interesting that the LL requested you pay the 1st of every month. I'd take this as your AST agreement rather than your initial contract setup date which would mean that you'd move out the end of Feb, ensuring you don't overpay if you are in credit by half a month from the initial move in date.
Sorry to disagree with everyone, but.....
Once you depart from the AST you enter a periodical tenancy, and you in effect create a new period each time you pay some rent. Therefore if you pay rent on the 1st of each month you have a tenancy for that month only, the next rental payment creates a tenancy for another month, and so on.
So, in my opinion you only need to give a months notice to be effective from the 1st of February. There is nothing in law prohibiting you physically serving it earlier than 1st February either.
Once you depart from the AST you enter a periodical tenancy, and you in effect create a new period each time you pay some rent. Therefore if you pay rent on the 1st of each month you have a tenancy for that month only, the next rental payment creates a tenancy for another month, and so on.
So, in my opinion you only need to give a months notice to be effective from the 1st of February. There is nothing in law prohibiting you physically serving it earlier than 1st February either.
There is a special term in the original AST;
"The day of the month on which the tenancy starts is deemed to be the day by which all notices must be served and will take effect. "
I think the error was mine rather than their's, and as such I am happy to accept it.
I actually paid 5 & 1/2 months upfront to secure the house and currently pay rent monthly on the 1st of the month, so to the 13th will either be
13/28 x PCM rent or
13/365 x 12 x PCM rent
I guess I need to look at what I paid initially and just pay the other half...
"The day of the month on which the tenancy starts is deemed to be the day by which all notices must be served and will take effect. "
I think the error was mine rather than their's, and as such I am happy to accept it.
I actually paid 5 & 1/2 months upfront to secure the house and currently pay rent monthly on the 1st of the month, so to the 13th will either be
13/28 x PCM rent or
13/365 x 12 x PCM rent
I guess I need to look at what I paid initially and just pay the other half...
I've just checked the original AST and it ended on the 31st of the month, and I have been paying rent on the 1st of each month since.
It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
jmsgld said:
I've just checked the original AST and it ended on the 31st of the month, and I have been paying rent on the 1st of each month since.
It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
You serve notice from the rent due in my experience/understanding.It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
So in your case 1 calendar month from the 1st.
jmsgld said:
I've just checked the original AST and it ended on the 31st of the month, and I have been paying rent on the 1st of each month since.
It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
You serve notice from the rent due in my experience/understanding.It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
So in your case 1 calendar month from the 1st.
jmsgld said:
I've just checked the original AST and it ended on the 31st of the month, and I have been paying rent on the 1st of each month since.
It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
Since your original AST stated both the length of Notice required, and the day in the month the Notice was both served and ended, then you might consider yourself both legally and morally responsible to comply with the same. I make my observation, being well aware of a recent landmarks High Court Judgment.It does also state that the rental period is 14th to 13th of each month and that all notices should be given by then...
Does the original AST that I signed still hold or is that no longer relevant now we are almost a year past it's ending?
jmsgld said:
Anyone able to clarify?
Month's notice from the 13th.When the fixed period of your AST expired, you went automatically onto a periodic tenancy.
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/ending-assur...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_r...
Thanks for all the replies, seems to raise some strong opinions!
Just to put it all in context, I am both a LL and a tenant. I have always tried to be as fair, understanding and kind as possible with all my tenants. I have ended ASTs before the end of fixed terms, reduced rents and changed leaving dates all in line with tenants requests and I will continue to do so.
I was after a legal perspective rather than a moral one, and have only given details relevant to the former.
Just to clarify, the AST ended on the 31/03/14 and rent has been paid on the1st of the month thereafter. I gave notice on the 20/1/15 with a view to ending the tenancy on the 28/2/15 so 1 month and 11 days notice.
Having read up on the Shelter website linked above, my understanding is that a periodic tenancy was started on 1/4/14 and as such my periodic tenancy runs from the 1st of each month. My view is therefore that by the 28th Feb, I will have served my notice. Having said that I may well do as the lLL wishes rather than risk vengeance.
Thanks again, James
Just to put it all in context, I am both a LL and a tenant. I have always tried to be as fair, understanding and kind as possible with all my tenants. I have ended ASTs before the end of fixed terms, reduced rents and changed leaving dates all in line with tenants requests and I will continue to do so.
I was after a legal perspective rather than a moral one, and have only given details relevant to the former.
Just to clarify, the AST ended on the 31/03/14 and rent has been paid on the1st of the month thereafter. I gave notice on the 20/1/15 with a view to ending the tenancy on the 28/2/15 so 1 month and 11 days notice.
Having read up on the Shelter website linked above, my understanding is that a periodic tenancy was started on 1/4/14 and as such my periodic tenancy runs from the 1st of each month. My view is therefore that by the 28th Feb, I will have served my notice. Having said that I may well do as the lLL wishes rather than risk vengeance.
Thanks again, James
jmsgld said:
Thanks for all the replies, seems to raise some strong opinions!
Just to put it all in context, I am both a LL and a tenant. I have always tried to be as fair, understanding and kind as possible with all my tenants. I have ended ASTs before the end of fixed terms, reduced rents and changed leaving dates all in line with tenants requests and I will continue to do so.
I was after a legal perspective rather than a moral one, and have only given details relevant to the former.
Just to clarify, the AST ended on the 31/03/14 and rent has been paid on the1st of the month thereafter. I gave notice on the 20/1/15 with a view to ending the tenancy on the 28/2/15 so 1 month and 11 days notice.
Having read up on the Shelter website linked above, my understanding is that a periodic tenancy was started on 1/4/14 and as such my periodic tenancy runs from the 1st of each month. My view is therefore that by the 28th Feb, I will have served my notice. Having said that I may well do as the lLL wishes rather than risk vengeance.
Thanks again, James
Ahh - that's actually fundamental information.Just to put it all in context, I am both a LL and a tenant. I have always tried to be as fair, understanding and kind as possible with all my tenants. I have ended ASTs before the end of fixed terms, reduced rents and changed leaving dates all in line with tenants requests and I will continue to do so.
I was after a legal perspective rather than a moral one, and have only given details relevant to the former.
Just to clarify, the AST ended on the 31/03/14 and rent has been paid on the1st of the month thereafter. I gave notice on the 20/1/15 with a view to ending the tenancy on the 28/2/15 so 1 month and 11 days notice.
Having read up on the Shelter website linked above, my understanding is that a periodic tenancy was started on 1/4/14 and as such my periodic tenancy runs from the 1st of each month. My view is therefore that by the 28th Feb, I will have served my notice. Having said that I may well do as the lLL wishes rather than risk vengeance.
Thanks again, James
It's a s
t contractual situation from your landlord, as the whole point of a contract is that there is no grey area.If it is the case that your AST ended on the 31st, in the absence of any further agreement, your rental periods are calendar months, from start to end.
I'm not aware of the judgment Wings is mentioning, but I trust him as he is a pro at this.
However, notwithstanding the above, there is an alternative interpretation. That is, the contract should not override the statutory instrument of the AST, for example a longer notice period should not be interpreted than a month (the rental period).
However, the LL is totally at liberty to offer you better terms than that. The other interpretation is that with the understanding the notice period cannot be longer than a month, and that it must be at the end of a rental period, the other interpretation is if the 13th is specifically quoted as when notice must be given, then this does suggest it could be read as if you gave notice on 13th February, you can leave on the 28th.
That said, I wouldn't take that interpretation.
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