Potential to loose £10k from the sale of my car! HELP! SCAM
Discussion
alwoodman said:
So if I did report this car stolen the sales document that the new owner has will be null and void because the new company that sold it had no right to do so in the first place?
No. Legally you are probably stuffed. In your position id break the law. Read into that what you want. If you don't know any horrible nasty people then go to the roughest nastiest gym in your area and ask the owner for an introduction to some lads who want to earn a bit of money for some debt collecting work. Even if you don't get your money back he won't be enjoying it from a hospital bed. But that's me. Id rather sleep on the streets than rip of an honest hard working person!
The law will not be on your side, when he goes bust you will be left car less and out of pocket!
You can either do something about it or not
Last time I was owed money the director was always out or wouldn't see me so the next visit I told the secretary if he didn't see me now I would walk in on the meeting he was having
I sat in one of the offices, he came out I got my money
These people constantly do this so make life uncomfortable for him
Good luck
By the way would be let you pay by cheque if you bought a car from him?
You can either do something about it or not
Last time I was owed money the director was always out or wouldn't see me so the next visit I told the secretary if he didn't see me now I would walk in on the meeting he was having
I sat in one of the offices, he came out I got my money
These people constantly do this so make life uncomfortable for him
Good luck
By the way would be let you pay by cheque if you bought a car from him?
KFC / alwoodman.
When I say "legal" there is no offence here under the Theft Act as there is no intention to permanently deprive the said person of his property.
If you take such action have all of your paperwork with you and should the Police be called, calmly and politely explain your position and that the seized property will be returned upon you receiving your payment. This is then a matter for the civil court rather than the criminal court. Therefore the Police officers are unable to get involved and their role there will be to prevent a Breach of the peace.
Keep it simple. He owes you money. At this point in time NOTHING has been stolen, ie, the car, money, title etc.
Mk3 Spitfire. No, sorry. Not me.
When I say "legal" there is no offence here under the Theft Act as there is no intention to permanently deprive the said person of his property.
If you take such action have all of your paperwork with you and should the Police be called, calmly and politely explain your position and that the seized property will be returned upon you receiving your payment. This is then a matter for the civil court rather than the criminal court. Therefore the Police officers are unable to get involved and their role there will be to prevent a Breach of the peace.
Keep it simple. He owes you money. At this point in time NOTHING has been stolen, ie, the car, money, title etc.
Mk3 Spitfire. No, sorry. Not me.
AndyWiltshire said:
KFC / alwoodman.
When I say "legal" there is no offence here under the Theft Act as there is no intention to permanently deprive the said person of his property.
Does this mean I could take the brand new Range Rover parked up the road to get to work this morning? It's cold and icy outside. They can have it back tonight, or maybe tomorrow.When I say "legal" there is no offence here under the Theft Act as there is no intention to permanently deprive the said person of his property.
Johnnybv8.
Many years ago the example that you have described would not have been an offence. That is why the offences of Taking and Driving Away or Aggravated Vehicle Taking was introduced.
Another example; If I went into your unlocked garden shed and took your electric lawn mower and then cut my lawn. Just as I was finishing you realised what was happening and called the Police. If I made it clear to the Police that I was going to return it once I had finished, and there was no evidence to the contrary, I would not commit any offence under the Theft Act because I had no intention to permanently deprive you of it.
Any Police Officer will be fully aware of this.
Many years ago the example that you have described would not have been an offence. That is why the offences of Taking and Driving Away or Aggravated Vehicle Taking was introduced.
Another example; If I went into your unlocked garden shed and took your electric lawn mower and then cut my lawn. Just as I was finishing you realised what was happening and called the Police. If I made it clear to the Police that I was going to return it once I had finished, and there was no evidence to the contrary, I would not commit any offence under the Theft Act because I had no intention to permanently deprive you of it.
Any Police Officer will be fully aware of this.
AndyWiltshire said:
Johnnybv8.
Many years ago the example that you have described would not have been an offence. That is why the offences of Taking and Driving Away or Aggravated Vehicle Taking was introduced.
Another example; If I went into your unlocked garden shed and took your electric lawn mower and then cut my lawn. Just as I was finishing you realised what was happening and called the Police. If I made it clear to the Police that I was going to return it once I had finished, and there was no evidence to the contrary, I would not commit any offence under the Theft Act because I had no intention to permanently deprive you of it.
Any Police Officer will be fully aware of this.
Interesting. Anyway, not the end of the world; I just walked to work instead.Many years ago the example that you have described would not have been an offence. That is why the offences of Taking and Driving Away or Aggravated Vehicle Taking was introduced.
Another example; If I went into your unlocked garden shed and took your electric lawn mower and then cut my lawn. Just as I was finishing you realised what was happening and called the Police. If I made it clear to the Police that I was going to return it once I had finished, and there was no evidence to the contrary, I would not commit any offence under the Theft Act because I had no intention to permanently deprive you of it.
Any Police Officer will be fully aware of this.
I am sorry but everything AndyWiltshire has posted sounds like utter utter b
ks to me.
If it were so easy to fob off the police with the "not permanently depriving" line, then we wouldn't have the enormous bailiff industry we do have for collecting debts through the court system.
This is how it would go if the police turned up when the garage owner claims to have caught a thief red-handed.
Garage "he's nicked my laptop - arrest him."
Police to AndyW "sir is that your laptop?"
AndyW "no it's his."
Police "well fking give it back you cretinous moron otherwise I will arrest you for theft."
AndyW "I'm only borrowing it, I will give it back eventually, it's not theft."
Police "give it back now or I am arresting you, you utter st-for-brains."
AndyW "but he owes me money."
Police "I don't care, that's a civil matter. Give the laptop back, you ridiculous douche-nozzle."
ks to me.If it were so easy to fob off the police with the "not permanently depriving" line, then we wouldn't have the enormous bailiff industry we do have for collecting debts through the court system.
This is how it would go if the police turned up when the garage owner claims to have caught a thief red-handed.
Garage "he's nicked my laptop - arrest him."
Police to AndyW "sir is that your laptop?"
AndyW "no it's his."
Police "well f
king give it back you cretinous moron otherwise I will arrest you for theft."AndyW "I'm only borrowing it, I will give it back eventually, it's not theft."
Police "give it back now or I am arresting you, you utter s
t-for-brains."AndyW "but he owes me money."
Police "I don't care, that's a civil matter. Give the laptop back, you ridiculous douche-nozzle."
These tales put me off ever buying or selling a car on SOR, the only way I'd do it is if the customer paid me the money and I gave the dealer his commission or via a solicitor.
In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market where SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market where SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
Edited by Wills2 on Friday 30th January 09:42
Wills2 said:
These tales put me off ever buying or selling a car on SOR, the only way I'd do it is if the customer paid me the money and I gave the dealer his commission or via a solicitor.
In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market were SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
It is sadly a market ripe for fraud.In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market were SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
Based on a contract - civil law.
Few if any assets to "seize" if you get judgement - the expensive cars on the plot are not business assets.
Companies that are easy to wind up.
Personal assets probably well hidden - assuming they were even guarantying the company.
alwoodman said:
A cheque for full payment arrived registered post this morning. The misses is on the way to the bank! We still have a nervous few days waiting for it to clear but we'll use the Direct Presentation service at Barclays which will trim the time frame by at least a day. #squeekybumtime
wonderfulWills2 said:
These tales put me off ever buying or selling a car on SOR, the only way I'd do it is if the customer paid me the money and I gave the dealer his commission or via a solicitor.
I simply did not even consider how much I have left myself exposed on a deal like this. I question whether the buyer even knew he was buying a SOR car?Let's hope the cheque does not bounce.
Personally, I don't think it will, otherwise I don't think he would have sent it recorded delivery in the first place....but keep us informed, as I'm sure you will.
Let this thread be a warning to anyone leaving a car (or motorbike) with a dealer on SOR, it does not matter how big they are, how long they have been trading.......ninety nine times out of a hundred you should be OK, but the odd one percent?
Can you afford to take the risk?
Personally, I don't think it will, otherwise I don't think he would have sent it recorded delivery in the first place....but keep us informed, as I'm sure you will.
Let this thread be a warning to anyone leaving a car (or motorbike) with a dealer on SOR, it does not matter how big they are, how long they have been trading.......ninety nine times out of a hundred you should be OK, but the odd one percent?
Can you afford to take the risk?
Wills2 said:
These tales put me off ever buying or selling a car on SOR, the only way I'd do it is if the customer paid me the money and I gave the dealer his commission or via a solicitor.
In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market where SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
Anyone considering SOR should read this excellent advice.In fact thinking about it I'm sure at the higher end of the market where SOR could be the norm (classic and rare cars) I would imagine it is all done through a solicitor acting in escrow.
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