Potential to loose £10k from the sale of my car! HELP! SCAM
Discussion
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
You could sell that cheque. Might be worth a bit if it bounces. Gotta make the best of what you've got!randlemarcus said:
Makes life a little easier,as you don't need to sue on a complicated story of cars, and deposits, but a simple bounced cheque. Doesn't mean it's any easier to extract cash though. It wasn't his personal cheque, was it?
alwoodman said:
I forgot to mention...the cheque is not in the newly formed (in the last 4 months) business name or the dissolved company name, it is the dealers initials followed bv trading as like this:
xx trading as blablabla
Is that a sole trader format?
xx trading as blablabla
Is that a sole trader format?
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
OK. When it bounces for a second time, your bank will likely post it back to you. However, you'll be a week further on by that stage.
He's likely got two accounts.
I. M. A. Scammer and I. M. A. Scammer T/A Honest Guv Cars
He's written you a cheque out from the latter. To answer your question, he has made himself personally liable. Sole traders have unlimited liability. That bits good. However, if he knows that there's no money in the T/A account, he can still con you with cheques.
Going back to my analysis a few pages back as to why he would post a cheque and not pay by BACS, as I said before, this was likely a stalling tactic for a rubber cheque.
With the knowledge it has now bounced, then clearly, he knew he was playing you like a fiddle all the way along.
If he can write you out a cheque that will be honoured, then he has access to cash. He can give you cash, or BACs transfer. If he says that there is cash for the cheque to clear, he has the ability to stop that cheque, go to his bank and give you the cash.
Unless his cheque is rubber. In which case, he'll give you a load of reasons why he can't do that.
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
Thank you for the update and I'm sorry to hear that this is still dragging on (but not surprised really!).How high have you got your hopes up that the cheque will clear on Monday?
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out eventually and you get your money, it must be a major ball-ache!
The sad thing is, unscrupulous t
ts like the one you're having to deal with do so much damage to others in the trade who offer as similar service but do it legitimately, as everyone straight away suspects it could turn out as badly as your case has been.The trouble is, as you have found out, it's so easy to get caught out!
Years ago I bought a car from a well established dealer on finance (at the time, the dealers loan rate was far better than the banks were!), and got caught out when an additional payment of £500 was taken after the loan period had ended. The dealer assured Me it was a straight forward error and the money would be refunded.
Two months later I was still battling to get My money back, and every time I contacted them I was given excuses, apologies and guarantee's that My money would be refunded.
Six months later I was informed by administrators that the dealer had hit financial difficulties with their cash flow twelve months before and had now gone bankrupt!
Apparently the dealer had taken money from several hundred people in the same way hoping to keep his business afloat somehow but had just dug himself deeper into trouble.
I was informed that as one of several hundred "unsecured creditors", there was pretty much no chance of Me ever getting My money back (which is exactly what happened).
Last as I ever heard, the dealer was facing charges of theft and fraud but I've no idea what the end result was. It was the last time I used a dealers finance though, since then I've only used the large banks personal loans when needed.
Good luck to you OP, My £500 was bad enough, with £10K at stake I can well imagine the anguish that you're feeling!
4rephill said:
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
Thank you for the update and I'm sorry to hear that this is still dragging on (but not surprised really!).How high have you got your hopes up that the cheque will clear on Monday?
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out eventually and you get your money, it must be a major ball-ache!
The sad thing is, unscrupulous t
ts like the one you're having to deal with do so much damage to others in the trade who offer as similar service but do it legitimately, as everyone straight away suspects it could turn out as badly as your case has been.The trouble is, as you have found out, it's so easy to get caught out!
Years ago I bought a car from a well established dealer on finance (at the time, the dealers loan rate was far better than the banks were!), and got caught out when an additional payment of £500 was taken after the loan period had ended. The dealer assured Me it was a straight forward error and the money would be refunded.
Two months later I was still battling to get My money back, and every time I contacted them I was given excuses, apologies and guarantee's that My money would be refunded.
Six months later I was informed by administrators that the dealer had hit financial difficulties with their cash flow twelve months before and had now gone bankrupt!
Apparently the dealer had taken money from several hundred people in the same way hoping to keep his business afloat somehow but had just dug himself deeper into trouble.
I was informed that as one of several hundred "unsecured creditors", there was pretty much no chance of Me ever getting My money back (which is exactly what happened).
Last as I ever heard, the dealer was facing charges of theft and fraud but I've no idea what the end result was. It was the last time I used a dealers finance though, since then I've only used the large banks personal loans when needed.
Good luck to you OP, My £500 was bad enough, with £10K at stake I can well imagine the anguish that you're feeling!
The dealer in your case was obviously a scum bag but you could have easily avoided this.
TheHound said:
Why didn't you cancel the Direct Debit or Standing order?
The dealer in your case was obviously a scum bag but you could have easily avoided this.
I did, it was unfortunate timing that couldn't be avoided.The dealer in your case was obviously a scum bag but you could have easily avoided this.
This was back in '96 and I was in the second month of a 3month business trip to Japan when the last payment was to be taken out.
When I got back I cancelled the DD but the payment had already been taken (it was taken a matter of days before I cancelled it!
), despite the letter I received from the dealer confirming that the loan had ended. (A copy of the letter was supplied to the administrators as part of the evidence of the dealers theft/fraud case as he had knowingly taken payments he shouldn't have. The administrators informed Me that the dealer knew exactly what he was doing and the fact that it was illegal. They said he was desperate for cash and thought he could get his business going again and just pay it all back later!).
I showed the bank the dated letter but they said as I hadn't cancelled the DD before the extra payment had gone out it was still in place and they were not liable! (I did try and the bank were sympathetic to My plight but said they couldn't help Me as it was between Myself and the dealer).
If I could have cancelled the order sooner then I would have but trust Me on this: Back in '96, trying to sort out your domestic business and finances from Japan was never going to happen! It was hard enough just trying to telephone home!
JustinP1 said:
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
...If he can write you out a cheque that will be honoured, then he has access to cash. He can give you cash, or BACs transfer. If he says that there is cash for the cheque to clear, he has the ability to stop that cheque, go to his bank and give you the cash.
Unless his cheque is rubber. In which case, he'll give you a load of reasons why he can't do that.
alwoodman said:
Yep that's exactly what's happened. The cheque did indeed bounce on Thursday so he's played me like a mug...the cheque has been represented by my bank and he's assured me that the cheque will clear Monday.
Ok, he issued a cheque in his own name didn't he? It was NOT a company cheque, nor Mr A Liar Trading As or anything. His OWN account?If so, tell him he was 24 hours to bring the cash to you. Absent that you will issue a county court claim for summary judgment - which will be issued, because of the cheque rule, there is no defence to this application. After that, you will refer the matter to the High Court Bailiffs and he might want to look into just how much better they are.....
Tell him he might want to take legal advice very quickly, because once the bailiffs are instructed his credit is shot and his wife will not appreciate the bailiffs walking through her house taking their goods....
Jasandjules said:
Ok, he issued a cheque in his own name didn't he? It was NOT a company cheque, nor Mr A Liar Trading As or anything. His OWN account?
alwoodman said:
I forgot to mention...the cheque is not in the newly formed (in the last 4 months) business name or the dissolved company name, it is the dealers initials followed bv trading as like this:
xx trading as blablabla
Is that a sole trader format?
xx trading as blablabla
Is that a sole trader format?
Jasandjules said:
Ah fiddlesticks I thought previously the OP said the cheque was a personal one.
I am not a solicitor so might be wrong, but as far as I'm aware there's no limited liability protection for a sole trader so I believe it's as good as a personal cheque. I think the OP has a good chance of getting his money on the basis of the cheque alone, the trader has acknowledged the debt and issued a cheque as a sole trader, so unless he becomes bankrupt his personal assets (if any) are on the line. Jasandjules said:
It's been too long for me with this aspect of law but yes I do think sole traders who are "trading as" a company are responsible for the company debts.
CARE must be taken here.- If it's a limited company, then all bets are off...limited liability applies, UNLESS* it can be PROVEN the director was trading whilst knowingly insolvent.
- If it's an unincorporated business, then the owner/trader IS liable personally.
OP - please can you confirm the precise wording (leave off names if you prefer) on the cheque? Because you may have a real opportunity here...
:keepseverythingcrossed:
* big IF
havoc said:
CARE must be taken here.
- If it's a limited company, then all bets are off...limited liability applies, UNLESS* it can be PROVEN the director was trading whilst knowingly insolvent.
- If it's an unincorporated business, then the owner/trader IS liable personally.
OP - please can you confirm the precise wording (leave off names if you prefer) on the cheque? Because you may have a real opportunity here...
:keepseverythingcrossed:
* big IF
Somewhere above is a quote saying that the cheque was issued by xx trading as blablabla, that suggests personal liability to me.- If it's a limited company, then all bets are off...limited liability applies, UNLESS* it can be PROVEN the director was trading whilst knowingly insolvent.
- If it's an unincorporated business, then the owner/trader IS liable personally.
OP - please can you confirm the precise wording (leave off names if you prefer) on the cheque? Because you may have a real opportunity here...
:keepseverythingcrossed:
* big IF
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