Realities of automatic detection of foreign plate
Discussion
I've brought over a foreign car from Canada to London. The car is legally in the UK, and I am insured with proper UK insurance. I can keep it in the country for 2 years, with my Canadian plates (and a CDN sticker).
So, what is the reality of plate detection-based fines and charges for me? Specifically, what happens with:
- London CCZ (I live across the street from it, entered it once on a weekday, did not pay)
- Speed cameras/red light cameras
- Parking tickets around the country
In particular, for both the CCZ and the speed cameras, do the fines accumulate? Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
Any experience with this? Online sources indicate that with speed cameras, the government "may" track down repeat offenders, somehow, but generally they do not. I am not sure how they would even track me down as my address is not associated with with my car or my plate, and I don't have a UK driver's license. I didn't see much on CCZ and parking tickets, except to say that UK motorists are upset at the likes of me.
Any insight appreciated.
So, what is the reality of plate detection-based fines and charges for me? Specifically, what happens with:
- London CCZ (I live across the street from it, entered it once on a weekday, did not pay)
- Speed cameras/red light cameras
- Parking tickets around the country
In particular, for both the CCZ and the speed cameras, do the fines accumulate? Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
Any experience with this? Online sources indicate that with speed cameras, the government "may" track down repeat offenders, somehow, but generally they do not. I am not sure how they would even track me down as my address is not associated with with my car or my plate, and I don't have a UK driver's license. I didn't see much on CCZ and parking tickets, except to say that UK motorists are upset at the likes of me.
Any insight appreciated.
Everything is recorded these days and put on a database, so its possible for any Sherlock Holmes to find you out.
Doing something ocassionally, or lots of things in a fortnight will make you look like a tourist and potentially allow you to cruise under the radar.
If you are a 'repeat offender' over a longer period (2 years), such as speeding though cameras, or parking in the same street without a ticket - you will ultimately flag up on the list after the x'th offence and identified by somebody who has the decision to pursue or ignore.
It then becomes a question of whether they can find you - which if you have VED and Insurance against that registration is probably a yes, as your address information is in another database and readily available to government agencies.
Of course, the people that have control over all the condemning information, could also be too lazy and feckless to bother wasting valuable tea/fag break time, to look for any exceptions.
Basically, there are no guarantees.
Doing something ocassionally, or lots of things in a fortnight will make you look like a tourist and potentially allow you to cruise under the radar.
If you are a 'repeat offender' over a longer period (2 years), such as speeding though cameras, or parking in the same street without a ticket - you will ultimately flag up on the list after the x'th offence and identified by somebody who has the decision to pursue or ignore.
It then becomes a question of whether they can find you - which if you have VED and Insurance against that registration is probably a yes, as your address information is in another database and readily available to government agencies.
Of course, the people that have control over all the condemning information, could also be too lazy and feckless to bother wasting valuable tea/fag break time, to look for any exceptions.
Basically, there are no guarantees.
f00kie said:
I can keep it in the country for 2 years, with my Canadian plates (and a CDN sticker).
No, you can't. Six months in any twelve, so long as you're not resident. Which you are, if you're living and working here for two years.https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
f00kie said:
Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
The car can be seized, even without any speeding/parking/CCZ tickets.https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-crac...
f00kie said:
I don't have a UK driver's license.
Canadian? So after twelve months, you'll need a UK licence.https://www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence
So, in a year's time, the Police are going to be dealing with an UK resident with no valid driving licence, driving an unregistered car, probably with invalid insurance.
TooMany2cvs said:
f00kie said:
I can keep it in the country for 2 years, with my Canadian plates (and a CDN sticker).
No, you can't. Six months in any twelve, so long as you're not resident. Which you are, if you're living and working here for two years.https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
f00kie said:
Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
The car can be seized.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-crac...
https://www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence
So, in a year's time, the Police are going to be dealing with an UK resident with no valid driving licence, driving an unregistered car, probably with invalid insurance.
The car can be seized.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-crac...
f00kie said:
I don't have a UK driver's license.
Canadian? So after twelve months, you'll need a UK licence.https://www.gov.uk/driving-nongb-licence
So, in a year's time, the Police are going to be dealing with an UK resident with no valid driving licence, driving an unregistered car, probably with invalid insurance.
>6 months exemption does apply:
Students and workers
You may be able to use a vehicle with non-UK number plates for longer than a 6-month period, without taxing or registering it, if all the following apply:
you’re a student or worker
you normally live outside the EU
you’re in the UK for a set study or work period
the vehicle is registered in its home country
Canada, last time I checked, is outside of the EU? The other criteria are up to the OP.
Students and workers
You may be able to use a vehicle with non-UK number plates for longer than a 6-month period, without taxing or registering it, if all the following apply:
you’re a student or worker
you normally live outside the EU
you’re in the UK for a set study or work period
the vehicle is registered in its home country
Canada, last time I checked, is outside of the EU? The other criteria are up to the OP.
The relevant authority will refer the matter to EPC plc.
A FOI request answered in 2009:
"TfL does accept payment of the Congestion Charge for vehicles displaying
foreign vehicle registrations (FVRs). These can be identified by TfL
cameras and matched to the relevant payment. Should a foreign vehicle be
identified without a valid payment, a penalty charge will be generated.
However, if the vehicle is not registered in the UK, it will not be
possible to issue an actual penalty charge notice. European Parking
Collection Plc (EPC) has been authorised by TfL to act on our behalf in
administering the issuing of penalty charges to the keepers of vehicles
registered outside the UK. By employing EPC, TfL have significantly
increased the amount of debts recovered from countries outside of the UK,
with a collection rate of 35% where the keeper details can be obtained.
The issue regarding unpaid penalty charges incurred by foreign vehicles,
relates to a much wider EU problem of cross-border traffic enforcement.
There is still great difficulty in identifying the drivers of non-UK
vehicles, principally because no legal framework exists to allow civil
debts incurred in a foreign country to be transferred to the court system
of the resident country."
Btw, this info is now out of date (for EU member states).
A FOI request answered in 2009:
"TfL does accept payment of the Congestion Charge for vehicles displaying
foreign vehicle registrations (FVRs). These can be identified by TfL
cameras and matched to the relevant payment. Should a foreign vehicle be
identified without a valid payment, a penalty charge will be generated.
However, if the vehicle is not registered in the UK, it will not be
possible to issue an actual penalty charge notice. European Parking
Collection Plc (EPC) has been authorised by TfL to act on our behalf in
administering the issuing of penalty charges to the keepers of vehicles
registered outside the UK. By employing EPC, TfL have significantly
increased the amount of debts recovered from countries outside of the UK,
with a collection rate of 35% where the keeper details can be obtained.
The issue regarding unpaid penalty charges incurred by foreign vehicles,
relates to a much wider EU problem of cross-border traffic enforcement.
There is still great difficulty in identifying the drivers of non-UK
vehicles, principally because no legal framework exists to allow civil
debts incurred in a foreign country to be transferred to the court system
of the resident country."
Btw, this info is now out of date (for EU member states).
Thank you all for feedback. FYI I am not trying to circumvent rules, especially speeding as that is safety. But I do want to have the relevant information in my hands.
I would take it that EPC will not apply to me as it probably does not have visibility into Canada. Good point on my insurance though; if there is a central database where my insurance company sent my info to, I would be there, along with my address.
I would take it that EPC will not apply to me as it probably does not have visibility into Canada. Good point on my insurance though; if there is a central database where my insurance company sent my info to, I would be there, along with my address.
f00kie said:
Thank you all for feedback. FYI I am not trying to circumvent rules, especially speeding as that is safety. But I do want to have the relevant information in my hands.
I would take it that EPC will not apply to me as it probably does not have visibility into Canada.
.
". In 2006, EPC issued notices to 93 countries in 15 languages. Our remit is to assist in the equality of enforcement by ensuring that traffic penalties are enforced with parity and fairness. "I would take it that EPC will not apply to me as it probably does not have visibility into Canada.
.
agtlaw said:
". In 2006, EPC issued notices to 93 countries in 15 languages. Our remit is to assist in the equality of enforcement by ensuring that traffic penalties are enforced with parity and fairness. "
Wow, nice find. Thanks.Roo said:
Can't answer your questions unfortunately.
But, what car is it? Must be something special as it won't have been cheap to get here and sort out.
Nothing special, just a modified VW Golf GTI. I like driving and track the car, so I brought it over. Company paid the shipping as part of temporary relocation, but it's very reasonable to ship cars via boat.But, what car is it? Must be something special as it won't have been cheap to get here and sort out.
f00kie said:
I've brought over a foreign car from Canada to London. The car is legally in the UK, and I am insured with proper UK insurance. I can keep it in the country for 2 years, with my Canadian plates (and a CDN sticker).
So, what is the reality of plate detection-based fines and charges for me? Specifically, what happens with:
- London CCZ (I live across the street from it, entered it once on a weekday, did not pay)
- Speed cameras/red light cameras
- Parking tickets around the country
In particular, for both the CCZ and the speed cameras, do the fines accumulate? Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
Any experience with this? Online sources indicate that with speed cameras, the government "may" track down repeat offenders, somehow, but generally they do not. I am not sure how they would even track me down as my address is not associated with with my car or my plate, and I don't have a UK driver's license. I didn't see much on CCZ and parking tickets, except to say that UK motorists are upset at the likes of me.
Any insight appreciated.
Why do you think you should be able to come to UK from Canada and just not pay congestion, parking etc if you don't feel like it? So, what is the reality of plate detection-based fines and charges for me? Specifically, what happens with:
- London CCZ (I live across the street from it, entered it once on a weekday, did not pay)
- Speed cameras/red light cameras
- Parking tickets around the country
In particular, for both the CCZ and the speed cameras, do the fines accumulate? Meaning, if, let's say the police find and/or pull me over 1-yr down the line, they will see all my speed-camera based infractions (if any, that I've not paid of course) and arrest me on the spot? And with the CCZ, does that accumulate as well, and then at some point I may owe thousands of pounds? And with parking tickets, are they likely to clamp/tow me instead of writing a parking ticket, as they would assume I would not pay the ticket?
Any experience with this? Online sources indicate that with speed cameras, the government "may" track down repeat offenders, somehow, but generally they do not. I am not sure how they would even track me down as my address is not associated with with my car or my plate, and I don't have a UK driver's license. I didn't see much on CCZ and parking tickets, except to say that UK motorists are upset at the likes of me.
Any insight appreciated.
It doesn't seem particularly reasonable.
KFC said:
Why do you think you should be able to come to UK from Canada and just not pay congestion, parking etc if you don't feel like it?
It doesn't seem particularly reasonable.
Tell that to the US ambassador... or indeed any of them It doesn't seem particularly reasonable.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28309405
Vaud said:
KFC said:
Why do you think you should be able to come to UK from Canada and just not pay congestion, parking etc if you don't feel like it?
It doesn't seem particularly reasonable.
Tell that to the US ambassador... or indeed any of them It doesn't seem particularly reasonable.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28309405
The diplomatic logic is that they shouldn't be liable, because diplomats are tax-exempt.
The OP's logic is that he knows he's liable, but nobody's going to find him.
TooMany2cvs said:
Slightly different logic, though.
The diplomatic logic is that they shouldn't be liable, because diplomats are tax-exempt.
The OP's logic is that he knows he's liable, but nobody's going to find him.
True, and I think both should pay. My point was one of scale and where we should worry.The diplomatic logic is that they shouldn't be liable, because diplomats are tax-exempt.
The OP's logic is that he knows he's liable, but nobody's going to find him.
I don't know exactly what powers the authorities have to impound cars, but cautiously thinking out loud, if I were regularly flouting CC and parking regulations in London, the last thing I would do is keep the car parked on a Central London street for any length of time. It smacks of s
tting on one's doorstep, slightly.
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