Parking ticket on a disability exemption vehicle help.
Discussion
speedyguy said:
stuart313 said:
What difference does the tax disc make? if you display a blue badge do you not get free parking no matter what type of tax disc it is? can others who don't have a blue badge get free parking?
All very confusing.
You neglected to mention public/council parking and private parking.All very confusing.
Maybe to make it easier all round as suggested above, all should pay to park to prevent confusion?
tvrgit said:
Absolutely correct.
It might also be interesting to request a copy of the Council's Order or regulation and see if it even mentions the tax status of the vehicle - as above, the blue badge goes to the PERSON not the vehicle, so they can normally use the badge whether they are in a tax-exempt vehicle or not.
But the parking free in a Council car park only applies whilst the Blue Badge holder is in the zero tax rated vehicle. In other words the Blue Badge must be displayed and it must be a zero rated vehicle. The obvious thing is for the VRN of the zero rated vehicle to be added to the Blue Badge. If the Blue Badge is then displayed plus it is in the nominated vehicle then then it meets the criteria. The zero rated tax vehicle is only provided for those eligible for a mobility vehicle so it is the most severely affected Blue Badge holders. The same blue badge holder with a mobility vehicle would not be able to claim the 'free parking' if they were in a different vehicle. It might also be interesting to request a copy of the Council's Order or regulation and see if it even mentions the tax status of the vehicle - as above, the blue badge goes to the PERSON not the vehicle, so they can normally use the badge whether they are in a tax-exempt vehicle or not.
Edited by rewc on Tuesday 3rd February 20:03
Just to be clear.....not all council carparks are free for BB holders, even if the car has free RFL.....
I have both and in Shropshire I pay.......in Cheshire I pay....... In Liverpool I pay........ In Wrexham it's free...
You have to park, and read the notice.....
If I go to London in my disabled registered vehicle, I don't have to pay the congestion charge and the NPR software knows which cars have free RFL and which don't........
if I go in my wife's car I have to pay...
I have both and in Shropshire I pay.......in Cheshire I pay....... In Liverpool I pay........ In Wrexham it's free...
You have to park, and read the notice.....
If I go to London in my disabled registered vehicle, I don't have to pay the congestion charge and the NPR software knows which cars have free RFL and which don't........
if I go in my wife's car I have to pay...
Edited by Quinny on Tuesday 3rd February 20:06
rewc said:
But the parking free in a Council car park only applies whilst the Blue Badge holder is in the zero tax rated vehicle. In other words the Blue Badge must be displayed and it must be a zero rated vehicle. The obvious thing is for the VRN of the zero rated vehicle to be added to the Blue Badge. If the Blue Badge is then displayed plus it is in the nominated vehicle then then it meets the criteria.
I've never heard of that criteria before this thread. Sounds like the council making it up as they go along without thinking it through. If it is the case, I think I'd be asking them or my councillor, what steps they had taken to identify eligible cars/drivers since the tax disc was no longer a requirement.
Re why it's free (sometimes), as well as the yellow line issue, I think it may be because a disabled person will need more time to achieve the same tasks and thus pay more for parking (it could be argued).
Sticks. said:
I've never heard of that criteria before this thread. Sounds like the council making it up as they go along without thinking it through.
If it is the case, I think I'd be asking them or my councillor, what steps they had taken to identify eligible cars/drivers since the tax disc was no longer a requirement.
Re why it's free (sometimes), as well as the yellow line issue, I think it may be because a disabled person will need more time to achieve the same tasks and thus pay more for parking (it could be argued).
This CAB advise explains it better than me particularly who qualifies for a zero rated vehicle. Thank God I don't.If it is the case, I think I'd be asking them or my councillor, what steps they had taken to identify eligible cars/drivers since the tax disc was no longer a requirement.
Re why it's free (sometimes), as well as the yellow line issue, I think it may be because a disabled person will need more time to achieve the same tasks and thus pay more for parking (it could be argued).
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/c...
Edited by rewc on Tuesday 3rd February 20:21
rewc said:
But the parking free in a Council car park only applies whilst the Blue Badge holder is in the zero tax rated vehicle. In other words the Blue Badge must be displayed and it must be a zero rated vehicle. The obvious thing is for the VRN of the zero rated vehicle to be added to the Blue Badge. If the Blue Badge is then displayed plus it is in the nominated vehicle then then it meets the criteria. The zero rated tax vehicle is only provided for those eligible for a mobility vehicle so it is the most severely affected Blue Badge holders. The same blue badge holder with a mobility vehicle would not be able to claim the 'free parking' if they were in a different vehicle.
Since when did one have to be in a zero rated vehicle? The blue badge is a standalone permit for parking exemptions Europe-wide. One doesn't need to own a car to be eligible for a badge, so how does it work for the many people in this situation? Also what about all those eligible for discretionary badges (injuries, non-DLA/PIP recipients who have been awarded a badge by the LA etc), who don't actually qualify for high rate/enhanced rate DLA/PIP, and thus no disabled tax class vehicle such as a Motability car or private exempt tax class car? The badge itself is sufficient to meet the criteria, and can be used in everything from your own car to a taxi to a super car borrowed from a specialist hire firm. Someone above mentioned being a blue badge holder having to pay for parking in Liverpool amongst other cities. I'm in Liverpool these days and parking is free with one exception:
"If you have a blue badge you can park in any on street Pay and Display bays and in most of the city's Pay and Display car parks free of charge, with no time limit."
Source.
The only criteria is, as mandated, the display of a valid blue badge. Nothing to do with the vehicle it's being displayed in, as it's the person holding the badge who qualifies for the exemption, not the vehicle, which is of course the only sensible way to implement it. If the council the OP has been hit by doesn't implement this properly that's their problem, not his.
Edited by M6L11 on Tuesday 3rd February 20:38
M6L11]/url said:
The only criteria is, as mandated, the display of a valid blue badge. Nothing to do with the vehicle it's being displayed in.
That is not always so. The free parking in Council car parks is often limited to only those Blue Badge holders who are the most seriously disabled i.e. those who meet the criteria for a zero rated road tax vehicle who are automatically entitled to a Blue Badge. Different councils may have different rules regarding their parking charges regime. This is what my local council say about it."Am I entitled to free parking in pay and display car parks if I have a Blue Badge?
From 01 May 2011 Blue Badge Holders will be subject to the normal parking charges within all surface Off Street Car Parks in Poole.
Free parking is available for Blue Badge Holders in all on Street "Pay and Display" areas in Poole but subject to any time restrictions stipulated on the machine's information plate or other signs within the car park. Your badge and clock must be displayed.
Tax exempt drivers due to disability are allowed to park free in all surface and on street Pay and Display car parks but must obey time restrictions stipulated on the machines information plate or other signs within the car park.
Due to the abolition of tax discs, any person with a disabled tax exemption vehicle should continue to display their Nil tax disc (even if it is out of date so we can still check validity). Alternatively, to register your vehicle with the Council in order to continue to receive the free parking concession please send evidence of your vehicles disabled tax exemption via email to parkingadministration@poole.gov.uk
Not all council car parks in Liverpool are free
"If you have a blue badge you can park in any on street Pay and Display bays and in most of the city's Pay and Display car parks free of charge, with no time limit. Badge holders must ensure that a valid blue badge is clearly on display in the windscreen, so the date of expiry and issuing council are clearly visible from outside the vehicle. This is specified in your Blue Badge Scheme booklet.
"If you have a blue badge you can park in any on street Pay and Display bays and in most of the city's Pay and Display car parks free of charge, with no time limit. Badge holders must ensure that a valid blue badge is clearly on display in the windscreen, so the date of expiry and issuing council are clearly visible from outside the vehicle. This is specified in your Blue Badge Scheme booklet.
rewc said:
That is not always so. The free parking in Council car parks is often limited to only those Blue Badge holders who are the most seriously disabled i.e. those who meet the criteria for a zero rated road tax vehicle who are automatically entitled to a Blue Badge. Different councils may have different rules regarding their parking charges regime. This is what my local council say about it.
"Am I entitled to free parking in pay and display car parks if I have a Blue Badge?
From 01 May 2011 Blue Badge Holders will be subject to the normal parking charges within all surface Off Street Car Parks in Poole.
Free parking is available for Blue Badge Holders in all on Street "Pay and Display" areas in Poole but subject to any time restrictions stipulated on the machine's information plate or other signs within the car park. Your badge and clock must be displayed.
Tax exempt drivers due to disability are allowed to park free in all surface and on street Pay and Display car parks but must obey time restrictions stipulated on the machines information plate or other signs within the car park.
Due to the abolition of tax discs, any person with a disabled tax exemption vehicle should continue to display their Nil tax disc (even if it is out of date so we can still check validity). Alternatively, to register your vehicle with the Council in order to continue to receive the free parking concession please send evidence of your vehicles disabled tax exemption via email to parkingadministration@poole.gov.uk
To be fair that's not what you originally said. You said "But the parking free in a Council car park only applies whilst the Blue Badge holder is in the zero tax rated vehicle.""Am I entitled to free parking in pay and display car parks if I have a Blue Badge?
From 01 May 2011 Blue Badge Holders will be subject to the normal parking charges within all surface Off Street Car Parks in Poole.
Free parking is available for Blue Badge Holders in all on Street "Pay and Display" areas in Poole but subject to any time restrictions stipulated on the machine's information plate or other signs within the car park. Your badge and clock must be displayed.
Tax exempt drivers due to disability are allowed to park free in all surface and on street Pay and Display car parks but must obey time restrictions stipulated on the machines information plate or other signs within the car park.
Due to the abolition of tax discs, any person with a disabled tax exemption vehicle should continue to display their Nil tax disc (even if it is out of date so we can still check validity). Alternatively, to register your vehicle with the Council in order to continue to receive the free parking concession please send evidence of your vehicles disabled tax exemption via email to parkingadministration@poole.gov.uk
This implies all council car parks when this is manifestly not so. In fact this is the first I've ever heard of it and I've held a blue badge for years. Your council sounds backwards. How does an old outdated tax disc prove exemption? It takes a matter of seconds to buy a car and change the tax class, and I would argue that only offering free parking to some blue badge holders is tantamount to discrimination. The whole point of a blue badge, Europe wide, is that the holder is disabled enough to warrant special consideration. To then split this hair further in order to garner more funds seems peevish at best. I'd certainly be challenging that if it was my LA, even though I actually do have a blue badge and tax exempt vehicle. That's quite ridiculous.
Quinny said:
Not all council car parks in Liverpool are free
"If you have a blue badge you can park in any on street Pay and Display bays and in most of the city's Pay and Display car parks free of charge, with no time limit. Badge holders must ensure that a valid blue badge is clearly on display in the windscreen, so the date of expiry and issuing council are clearly visible from outside the vehicle. This is specified in your Blue Badge Scheme booklet.
I know. I said as much in my post where I pointed out there was an exception (just one), which is detailed in the link I provided. "If you have a blue badge you can park in any on street Pay and Display bays and in most of the city's Pay and Display car parks free of charge, with no time limit. Badge holders must ensure that a valid blue badge is clearly on display in the windscreen, so the date of expiry and issuing council are clearly visible from outside the vehicle. This is specified in your Blue Badge Scheme booklet.
Even then, the one exception only applies to the non-disabled spaces in that one particular car park. The disabled spaces in it are still free according to the wording on the exception paragraph. I was simply pointing this out for the benefit of the person above who said they were having to pay for parking in Liverpool, apparently without need.M6L11 said:
To be fair that's not what you originally said. You said "But the parking free in a Council car park only applies whilst the Blue Badge holder is in the zero tax rated vehicle."
This implies all council car parks when this is manifestly not so. In fact this is the first I've ever heard of it and I've held a blue badge for years. Your council sounds backwards. How does an old outdated tax disc prove exemption? It takes a matter of seconds to buy a car and change the tax class, and I would argue that only offering free parking to some blue badge holders is tantamount to discrimination. The whole point of a blue badge, Europe wide, is that the holder is disabled enough to warrant special consideration. To then split this hair further in order to garner more funds seems peevish at best. I'd certainly be challenging that if it was my LA, even though I actually do have a blue badge and tax exempt vehicle. That's quite ridiculous.
I'm the last person to comment on the logic or otherwise of Council parking regimes. I was specifically commenting on the OP's situation. It is obvious to anyone who travels about the country that different parking rules apply in different places. Some would speculate that it is made as confusing as possible to enhance penalty payments. The OP's and my Council obviously differ from yours and shows the vulnerability of expecting other authorities to have the same rules as per the drivers home one. This implies all council car parks when this is manifestly not so. In fact this is the first I've ever heard of it and I've held a blue badge for years. Your council sounds backwards. How does an old outdated tax disc prove exemption? It takes a matter of seconds to buy a car and change the tax class, and I would argue that only offering free parking to some blue badge holders is tantamount to discrimination. The whole point of a blue badge, Europe wide, is that the holder is disabled enough to warrant special consideration. To then split this hair further in order to garner more funds seems peevish at best. I'd certainly be challenging that if it was my LA, even though I actually do have a blue badge and tax exempt vehicle. That's quite ridiculous.
rewc said:
The OP's and my Council obviously differ from yours and shows the vulnerability of expecting other authorities to have the same rules as per the drivers home one.
Hence my comment above regarding parking and reading the notices.....
In oswestry for example, there are 3 council carparks in a very small area..as a BB holder in 1 you have to pay £0.60 per 1 hour....the next one used to be free, but now is also £0.60p and the third one is £0.70p for half an hour, but the first 10 minutes is free....
Go figure....
I suspect this will happen a lot more. A person up to 65 who has a mobility problem may have no problems getting mobility allowance ( and it's only the higher rate that receives the road tax concession), but once you reach 65, new rules apply ,as you have to crawl through the Attendance allowance scheme to be recognised. If you get mobility allowance before 65, then you can still get it after 65 ,if eligible, but DWP are clamping down,and causing problems for some .The badge, as said is independent of mobility allowance status, but since last year has been subject to an assessment by physiotherapists, on walking capabilities. I was told at mine that a lot of badges had been issued on possible medical problems rather than actual capabilities. I'm happy with that, as I'm p88d off by finding a supermarket disabled bay full ,and seeing a lot walking off to town . Locally we have two sorts of car park. Pay on entry and pay on exit. POEN ones allow an extra hour on top of that paid for, meaning that if I'm only parked for half an hour it costs me.Little wonder that the double yellows in our town centre are covered by Blue badge cars. But our cunning LA has a lot of roads with double yellows with waiting restrictions covered by wardens. I can't see any reason for the no waiting ,except to force drivers into the nearby LA car parks.
POEX ones, have a facility for a separate one hour free ticket to be issued.
However ,I'm seeing a lot more of cars parked in disabled bays / single/double yellows with a driver on board. perhaps this is where a bit of enforcement might be applied, to see if the driver or passenger is the one named on the badge.
POEX ones, have a facility for a separate one hour free ticket to be issued.
However ,I'm seeing a lot more of cars parked in disabled bays / single/double yellows with a driver on board. perhaps this is where a bit of enforcement might be applied, to see if the driver or passenger is the one named on the badge.
One point that I don't think anyone has mentioned is that the Blue Badge scheme only applies to on-street parking.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Any off-street concessions are entirely at the discretion of the local authority. That's where the issues arise because they all make up their own rules. If you have ever tried to negotiate that maze if often seems to be done on the hoof. Cross a LA boundary and you have to start over.
The worst scenario is if you're a day visitor to a place you are unfamiliar with. It can be like a military operation trying to find out the local off-street house rules in advance. Some LAs are a lot better than others at putting the required information on their website (if they have one). Smaller seaside towns are a particular hazard for disabled folk because it is quite possible to find one car park is run by the Town Council whereas another a few streets away may be operated by the the District Council. Never assume that the same rules apply to both.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Any off-street concessions are entirely at the discretion of the local authority. That's where the issues arise because they all make up their own rules. If you have ever tried to negotiate that maze if often seems to be done on the hoof. Cross a LA boundary and you have to start over.
The worst scenario is if you're a day visitor to a place you are unfamiliar with. It can be like a military operation trying to find out the local off-street house rules in advance. Some LAs are a lot better than others at putting the required information on their website (if they have one). Smaller seaside towns are a particular hazard for disabled folk because it is quite possible to find one car park is run by the Town Council whereas another a few streets away may be operated by the the District Council. Never assume that the same rules apply to both.
[quote=Who me ?]The badge, as said is independent of mobility allowance status, but since last year has been subject to an assessment by physiotherapists, on walking capabilities.
[/quote]
Has this changed??
I was under the impression that although the badge is independent of mobility allowance status, ie you don't have to be in receipt of MA to get a blue badge...... But if you are in receipt of MA your application for a BB is automatically granted...as that's how I've always applied for my badge in the past...
My badge expires shortly..... Be interesting to see how the new one is issued........ In fact I mapy ring the council later and find out....
[/quote]
Has this changed??
I was under the impression that although the badge is independent of mobility allowance status, ie you don't have to be in receipt of MA to get a blue badge...... But if you are in receipt of MA your application for a BB is automatically granted...as that's how I've always applied for my badge in the past...
My badge expires shortly..... Be interesting to see how the new one is issued........ In fact I mapy ring the council later and find out....
Quinny said:
Has this changed??
I was under the impression that although the badge is independent of mobility allowance status, ie you don't have to be in receipt of MA to get a blue badge...... But if you are in receipt of MA your application for a BB is automatically granted...as that's how I've always applied for my badge in the past...
My badge expires shortly..... Be interesting to see how the new one is issued........ In fact I mapy ring the council later and find out....
These are the eligibility criteria for automatic right to a Blue BadgeI was under the impression that although the badge is independent of mobility allowance status, ie you don't have to be in receipt of MA to get a blue badge...... But if you are in receipt of MA your application for a BB is automatically granted...as that's how I've always applied for my badge in the past...
My badge expires shortly..... Be interesting to see how the new one is issued........ In fact I mapy ring the council later and find out....
http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/blue-badge-schem...
etchacan said:
A bit more to the point, while I agree that vehicles/people that have blue disabled badges should get wider, closer, more accessible parking spots reserved for their use, why should they be exempt from paying the same parking charge as all the other users of the car park? Are they poorer than the rest of us?
Perhaps because they shouldn't have to walk to the machine then back to their car, its more a practicality thing than a cost thing and sort of defeats the purpose of having a space close to the shop or facilities. They could of course have a pay and display machine on top of the DDA spaces but this isn't always practical. (I occasionally design car parks)rewc said:
These are the eligibility criteria for automatic right to a Blue Badge
http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/blue-badge-schem...
Cheers.....appears it's just the same for those in receipt of mobility allowance..http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/blue-badge-schem...
I thought I would update this thread as there has been a conclusion.
The council have waived the charge for the ticket, albeit grudgingly by saying "on this occasion", but have not admitted liability & have warned it could happen again if they don't display the tax disc. Their system is that you have to register your registration number with them & they put it on a list of tax exempt vehicles they now keep. Not ideal, but fair enough as long as it works.
As an interesting aside, they are picking up their new Motability car this afternoon, but the dealer has not given them notice of the registration plate, so as they have to register the vehicle as per their new system they will not be able to use the car until they write to them & get a reply. Stupid.
I am trying to sort it by getting the dealer to supply the tax disc, but they haven't called me back yet.
The council have waived the charge for the ticket, albeit grudgingly by saying "on this occasion", but have not admitted liability & have warned it could happen again if they don't display the tax disc. Their system is that you have to register your registration number with them & they put it on a list of tax exempt vehicles they now keep. Not ideal, but fair enough as long as it works.
As an interesting aside, they are picking up their new Motability car this afternoon, but the dealer has not given them notice of the registration plate, so as they have to register the vehicle as per their new system they will not be able to use the car until they write to them & get a reply. Stupid.
I am trying to sort it by getting the dealer to supply the tax disc, but they haven't called me back yet.
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