Nightmare situation - Please help

[Greendubber]

What were you spiked with?


3 units was a guess...

I'll forget all the breath tests I've done and leave the amount of alcohol that can be consumed prior to driving to people on the internet to make up some generic sweeping statements.

Apologies for using valid experience.

Edited by Greendubber on Sunday 8th February 13:01

[ging84]

Massive leap to conclusion

I can't remember what happened in-between drinking my 4th drink, and the morning, i must have been drugged.
Has happened to me plenty of times, usually my wallet is emptied of cash and or there are charges I can't account for on my credit card. I think i must have been drugged and robbed, with some sort of drug that make your mouth taste like cigars, I am not sure why they filled my pockets with change. Sadly, i mean thankfully this doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it used to.

[mrtwisty]

Greendubber said:

...had he been spiked I'd be amazed he would be able to get a key out of his pocket.

But that is clearly a sweeping generalisation also. It depends entirely on what a person is spiked with. Would you expect someone spiked with ketamine to behave/present in the same way as someone spiked with ghb or ecstacy for example?

[Driver101]

Greendubber said:

What were you spiked with?


3 units was a guess...

I'll forget all the breath tests I've done and leave the amount of alcohol that can be consumed prior to driving to people on the internet to make up some generic sweeping statements.

Apologies for using valid experience.

Edited by Greendubber on Sunday 8th February 13:01

For someone so well rehearsed on drink driving, it's something you should know from the top of your head. I'd say most people in general would know how many units are in their drinks these days.

It's not a sweeping statement at all. Most people will fail after 3 glasses on wine and a JD.

As I say you're quick to dismiss the alcohol bit, but then using sweeping statements about drugs.

At the end of the day he hasn't even been charged with drink driving.

[LoonR1]

agtlaw said:

Does he have a "resonable excuse" for failing to give two breath specimens? If not, and the section 7 procedure was carried out correctly (statutory warning, suspect understood the warning, etc) then a guilty plea should be tendered at the earliest opportunity. If he relies on spiked drinks as part of a "reasonable excuse" or procedural irregularity defence then what evidence does he have or could he get? If OP can adduce some evidence then there is a legal burden on the prosecution to disprove it. N.b. A fanciful theory about spiked drinks is not evidence.

There's a good chance that this thread will be his defence amd proof he was spiked.

I'm with those who have zero sympathy. The OP needs to man up, accept what he did and face the consequences.

[Greendubber]

Driver101 said:

For someone so well rehearsed on drink driving, it's something you should know from the top of your head. I'd say most people in general would know how many units are in their drinks these days.

It's not a sweeping statement at all. Most people will fail after 3 glasses on wine and a JD.

As I say you're quick to dismiss the alcohol bit, but then using sweeping statements about drugs.

At the end of the day he hasn't even been charged with drink driving.

I very rarely drink and when I do I have no interest in how many units are in what I drink because knowing had no purpose. ALso the 'units' stamped on the side of a wine bottle has no evidential relevance in drink driving does it?

I am also fully aware of what he has been charged with as I read what he posted. My comments on drink drive where inspired by people saying how much a person can safely drink before driving which is no more than wild speculation as every person is different and even a small amount can put someone over.... hence my examples.

So what were you and your friends spiked with?

[Driver101]

Greendubber said:

I very rarely drink and when I do I have no interest in how many units are in what I drink because knowing had no purpose. ALso the 'units' stamped on the side of a wine bottle has no evidential relevance in drink driving does it?

I am also fully aware of what he has been charged with as I read what he posted. My comments on drink drive where inspired by people saying how much a person can safely drink before driving which is no more than wild speculation as every person is different and even a small amount can put someone over.... hence my examples.

So what were you and your friends spiked with?

Jeez, you're the type of guy you only find on the internet.

Why not just be man enough to admit in hindsight your opinion wasn't fact and actually daft given your comments in the same post?

I'm not the only one to have questioned your very questionable opinion .

You just come across as a man who's going to fight any point to the death as not to be wrong, when you are.

Calm yourself down a bit.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Driver101 said:

Jeez, you're the type of guy you only find on the internet.

Why not just be man enough to admit in hindsight your opinion wasn't fact and actually daft given your comments in the same post?

I'm not the only one to have questioned your very questionable opinion .

You just come across as a man who's going to fight any point to the death as not to be wrong, when you are.

Calm yourself down a bit.

But unless I have misunderstood, the point he makes is valid. You can't say "it's safe to drive/not safe to drive after xx units of alcohol". There are too many factors that will influence it, such as body weight, amount eaten prior to drinking etc.

On the other hand...you CAN say its not ok to drive with 35 + micrograms in 100 millilitres of breath. Because that is the law.

With regards to the spiking, he (I believe) was talking from personal experience, and with the lack of any further corroborating evidence, it's better than nothing.

Fact of the matter is, there are, as usual, so so many factors surrounding the incident that we were not given, meaning all this chatter is nothing more than speculation.

Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Sunday 8th February 15:48

[Driver101]

Mk3Spitfire said:

But unless I have misunderstood, the point he makes is valid. You can't say "it's safe to drive/not safe to drive after xx units of alcohol". There are too many factors that will influence it, such as body weight, amount eaten prior to drinking etc.

On the other hand...you CAN say its not ok to drive with 35 + micrograms in 100 millilitres of breath. Because that is the law.

With regards to the spiking, he (I believe) was talking from personal experience, and with the lack of any further corroborating evidence, it's better than nothing.

Fact of the matter is, there are, as usual, so so many factors surrounding the incident that we were not given, meaning all this chatter is nothing more than speculation.

Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Sunday 8th February 15:48

Read the earlier posts.

I'm not saying that either. I picked up on his earlier point that if you are spiked you'll be off your face and totally incapable of doing anything.

He said people can't make sweeping statements about alcohol and it how it affects different people. He made a sweeping statement about a drink being spiked means you will be incapable of even getting keys out of your pocket.

As I picked him up on this he just wants to make an argument out of nothing.

[Megaflow]

By my maths it works out like this:

Small glass of wine = 125ml
Wine is ~12% ABV
Single JD is 25ml
JD is 40% ABV

3 x 125 x 0.12 = 45ml
1 x 25 x 0.4 = 10ml
Total alcohol = 55ml or 5.5 units.
Broadly the same as two pints of strong beer.

There is no way you should be driving after that regardless of being spiked or not.

OP, you were a fool, you got caught, now take what follows like a man and learn from it. That is called life.

Edited by Megaflow on Sunday 8th February 15:58

[Greendubber]

Driver101 said:

Read the earlier posts.

I'm not saying that either. I picked up on his earlier point that if you are spiked you'll be off your face and totally incapable of doing anything.

He said people can't make sweeping statements about alcohol and it how it affects different people. He made a sweeping statement about a drink being spiked means you will be incapable of even getting keys out of your pocket.

As I picked him up on this he just wants to make an argument out of nothing.

I'm not making an argument about anything, just because I don't agree with you doesn't make it an argument. Unless of course its actually you that's 'one of those people you only meet on the Internet?'

Anyway, what were you spiked with? The reason I ask is because I want to know how you know that you were actually spiked, look back at Medic-ones post for more opinions (or actual real life experience) of spiking. Lots of people claim it but very few have actually had it happen. I presume from what you claim you must actually know what you were given if it was confirmed.

[anonymous-user]

I was a high risk offender and did a 3 month course. On this course there were similar offenders.

The denial and stories I heard are similar to yours. From the getgo I was honest with myself and admitted I had a problem so changed my ways.

But the stories some of the others said were so close to yours it is untrue. One was stitched up by a mate, drugged dumped in a car and the police called. Not his fault and he had a text to prove. Another one said a mate crashed the car and ran away even though dna evidence was proven he was the driver he never admitted.

I think you have a problem get a solicitor and learn from this.

[Nickyboy]

ging84 said:

Massive leap to conclusion

I can't remember what happened in-between drinking my 4th drink, and the morning, i must have been drugged.
Has happened to me plenty of times, usually my wallet is emptied of cash and or there are charges I can't account for on my credit card. I think i must have been drugged and robbed, with some sort of drug that make your mouth taste like cigars, I am not sure why they filled my pockets with change. Sadly, i mean thankfully this doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it used to.

In that case i get drugged a lot

3 glasses of wine & a JD amount to approx 7.9 units so enough to be a fair amount over plus the other drinks the OP "forgot" he drank

[Jasandjules]

OP get the CCTV - as above, S7 Subject Access Request. If someone has spiked your drink and it is on there that is a good start.

Your story is someone collander-esque, but nevertheless quite possible.

[Terminator X]

Some Gump said:

Gump's sympathy level: 0.

Thank god it was a kerb, not something more important, like a bus queue. IF you were spiked, then presumably the reason you drove home hammered is because that was always the plan - i.e have 3 glkasses of wine and a short, and drive. That's fully in "arse" category.

OP not stated timescales, could be over many hours therefore perfectly fine. Some posters need to count to 10 before leaping in ...

TX.

[BlackLabel]

When at Uni it was fairly common for folks to drive into town with the intention of walking or getting a taxi back at the end of the night and picking up the car the following day. However, there was always the odd idiot who now and again would risk driving at the end of the night .

It's amazing what risks people take just to avoid a 30 min walk or a 10 quid taxi.

[SK425]

Megaflow said:

By my maths it works out like this:

Small glass of wine = 125ml
Wine is ~12% ABV
Single JD is 25ml
JD is 40% ABV

3 x 125 x 0.12 = 45ml
1 x 25 x 0.4 = 10ml
Total alcohol = 55ml or 5.5 units.
Broadly the same as two pints of strong beer.

There is no way you should be driving after that regardless of being spiked or not.

OP, you were a fool, you got caught, now take what follows like a man and learn from it. That is called life.

You've been more generous than I was. I assumed 15% for the wine and 35ml for the shot of JD, which made it a smidgen over 7 units. But either way I don't think we can conclude there's no way he should have been driving, partly because as has been pointed out, the relationship between units and the metric you actually get prosecuted for is not simple, but mainly because there is still no mention of timescale from the OP - he could have consumed all that lot in less than an hour or he could have consumed it over five hours for example.

But most of all I think this comes back to:

OP said:

Unfortunately I do not recall the events that took place that night

I don't care how fast you drink it - three small glasses of wine and a shot doesn't sound like anything like enough alcohol to blank out your memory of your night out. If the OP has no memory then I think that suggests very strongly that he consumed something beyond what he listed, so all this discussion of the easy-calculated-but-not-what-actually-matters metric - units - is moot anyway. Whether what he consumed was more alcohol than he claimed or a drug in a spiked drink is something we can all speculate about I suppose.

[clarkey]

I don't think having a spiked drink is a defence for failure to supply a sample, quite the opposite.

If you had given a sample you could have argued that you were over the limit due to the spike - but you'd need evidence that the spike had caused you to be over, not that the spike had 'forced' you to drive.

Even if you argue that the spike 'forced' you to drive and you didn't intend to, how does this account for the failure to provide a sample?

So the offence here is failure to provide a sample - nothing about driving, or the amount you drank. Why didn't the OP cooperate and provide a sample like the rest of us would in that situation??? If my drink had been spiked I would have been keen to accumulate as much evidence as possible.

[Vaud]

clarkey said:

I don't think having a spiked drink is a defence for failure to supply a sample, quite the opposite.

That's the bit I don't understand from the OP.

He hit a kerb. Police called.

What happened next?

He clearly refused to give a specimen repeatedly and was eventually locked up overnight, but has no memory of it.

And yet if he was in a really bad state (drugged) would the doctor not have been called)? And then nothing in his system.

[JustinP1]

clarkey said:

Why didn't the OP cooperate and provide a sample like the rest of us would in that situation??? If my drink had been spiked I would have been keen to accumulate as much evidence as possible.

I'm not sure anyone can accurately state what they will do when they are under the influence of unknown drugs they do not know they have been administered with.

For example, shouting 'The Mars bars with sharks teeth that are chasing you aren't real!' to someone who is tripping on LSD won't make them snap out of it and behave like a normal person.