Help dealing with the estate of a deceased relative
Discussion
I'm in need of a bit of a leg-up from someone with experience in this area if possible.
I sadly lost my father at the weekend and am wading through the mire of trying to sort out his affairs.
He died without a will (intestate) and unmarried. I am his next of kin, no other children involved.
There is no property, car or other similar high value items to dispose of. Although I don't yet have access to the relevant paperwork I know there is personal debt which exceeds the value of any savings or goods and there is very unlikely to be any sort of insurance policy - he lived very much "in the now" and regarded insurance premiums as wasted money. I'm 99.9% sure that the estate is insolvent and won't even come close to covering the funeral costs, let alone repaying any creditors.
What I can't seem to get a clear answer on at the moment is whether I need "letters of administration". The CAB site says things like "may not" if "the amount of money is small" but there's no actual definition. I was hoping to be able to handle this side of things myself to save on the solicitors fees as it doesn't seem like a complicated estate to deal with - there's no money, no property, nothing of any real value in terms of personal possessions and no-one other than myself who would be in line to inherit anything.
Should I get proper legal advice or does this sound like a viable "DIY" process? Does anyone know for sure whether from the description I've given I will need letters of administration?
I was going to give the CAB a call when they open but needed to feel like I was doing something about it, PH legal beagles to the rescue?
I sadly lost my father at the weekend and am wading through the mire of trying to sort out his affairs.
He died without a will (intestate) and unmarried. I am his next of kin, no other children involved.
There is no property, car or other similar high value items to dispose of. Although I don't yet have access to the relevant paperwork I know there is personal debt which exceeds the value of any savings or goods and there is very unlikely to be any sort of insurance policy - he lived very much "in the now" and regarded insurance premiums as wasted money. I'm 99.9% sure that the estate is insolvent and won't even come close to covering the funeral costs, let alone repaying any creditors.
What I can't seem to get a clear answer on at the moment is whether I need "letters of administration". The CAB site says things like "may not" if "the amount of money is small" but there's no actual definition. I was hoping to be able to handle this side of things myself to save on the solicitors fees as it doesn't seem like a complicated estate to deal with - there's no money, no property, nothing of any real value in terms of personal possessions and no-one other than myself who would be in line to inherit anything.
Should I get proper legal advice or does this sound like a viable "DIY" process? Does anyone know for sure whether from the description I've given I will need letters of administration?
I was going to give the CAB a call when they open but needed to feel like I was doing something about it, PH legal beagles to the rescue?
No doubt others will be on to give advice, but you might find this of interest:
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
I'm sorry for your loss.
I've done this a few times, including intestate. I bought a book on the subject from Waterstones - they had a selection - and I found it very easy to follow. I went for a sort of beginners' guide and it explained terms, requirements, choices and pitfalls.
Executor is not a difficult role, although intestacy can make it more of a problem when there's money and various claimants. There are specific rules, but these are easy enough to follow.
As an aside, I found it therapeutic, taking my mind off things. There was some reassuring bits, such as doing your bit for your deceased loved one.
Best of luck.
I've done this a few times, including intestate. I bought a book on the subject from Waterstones - they had a selection - and I found it very easy to follow. I went for a sort of beginners' guide and it explained terms, requirements, choices and pitfalls.
Executor is not a difficult role, although intestacy can make it more of a problem when there's money and various claimants. There are specific rules, but these are easy enough to follow.
As an aside, I found it therapeutic, taking my mind off things. There was some reassuring bits, such as doing your bit for your deceased loved one.
Best of luck.
charltjr said:
What I can't seem to get a clear answer on at the moment is whether I need "letters of administration".
Get a stack of official copies of the death certificate.Draw up a list of everybody he owed and everywhere he had assets.
Go into branches, where possible, or at the very least write to them. For the official stuff (banks, cards, contracts etc), include an official copy of the death certificate. For the lower-key stuff, just a photocopy.
Then, if any of them come back to you asking for more, deal with that as it comes up. If nobody asks for letters of administration, you don't need 'em.
Thank you, that tallies with what I just found after doing some more reading on the same site as the link paintman provided:
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
Have nothing much constructively to add other than to say that I'm sorry for your loss.
Lost my own father suddenly just over a year ago and subsequently dealt with the intestate estate with my sister. We obtained letters of administration in our case, it seemed to be necessary in order to be able to formally speak to the various utilities "as him".
Lost my own father suddenly just over a year ago and subsequently dealt with the intestate estate with my sister. We obtained letters of administration in our case, it seemed to be necessary in order to be able to formally speak to the various utilities "as him".
My commiserations.
My wife died intestate last Summer, and obtaining Grant of Administration wasn't difficult as hers was a simple estate (it took about 3 months, a month of that was obtaining figures for my survivor's pension from her employer so I could have sorted it in 2 months). I suspect you may find you need longer to be able to obtain all the details of his debts and other finances, though.
As above, obtain several copies of his death certificates.
Also, when applying for Grant of Administration, ask for several copies of this as well - then you can deal with several creditors and institutions at once rather than one at a time (if you get my drift?).
One point to note is that you need to tell his bank(s) that he has passed away (in my wife's case, her bank and mortgage lender both wanted to see her death certificate as well as multiple IDs for me) - all the accounts will then be 'frozen' (but still charging or paying interest as appropriate) apart from paying for the funeral. You also need to advise the people he owes money to of the same.
The funeral director will give you a piece of paper called the "Agreement and Estimate" if you can't afford to pay the deposit (and there is enough in the bank to cover it), which you need to take to the bank and then the bank will pay the deposit for the funeral (assuming that there is enough in there to do so) to the funeral director.
Ditto with the final invoice after the funeral, if there is enough in the bank to pay it then they will do so when you hand the invoice to them.
But the bank account(s) remain frozen until you have obtained Grant of Administration.
Good luck
.
My wife died intestate last Summer, and obtaining Grant of Administration wasn't difficult as hers was a simple estate (it took about 3 months, a month of that was obtaining figures for my survivor's pension from her employer so I could have sorted it in 2 months). I suspect you may find you need longer to be able to obtain all the details of his debts and other finances, though.
As above, obtain several copies of his death certificates.
Also, when applying for Grant of Administration, ask for several copies of this as well - then you can deal with several creditors and institutions at once rather than one at a time (if you get my drift?).
One point to note is that you need to tell his bank(s) that he has passed away (in my wife's case, her bank and mortgage lender both wanted to see her death certificate as well as multiple IDs for me) - all the accounts will then be 'frozen' (but still charging or paying interest as appropriate) apart from paying for the funeral. You also need to advise the people he owes money to of the same.
The funeral director will give you a piece of paper called the "Agreement and Estimate" if you can't afford to pay the deposit (and there is enough in the bank to cover it), which you need to take to the bank and then the bank will pay the deposit for the funeral (assuming that there is enough in there to do so) to the funeral director.
Ditto with the final invoice after the funeral, if there is enough in the bank to pay it then they will do so when you hand the invoice to them.
But the bank account(s) remain frozen until you have obtained Grant of Administration.
Good luck
.charltjr said:
Thank you, that tallies with what I just found after doing some more reading on the same site as the link paintman provided:
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
Condolences on your loss. As the earlier link provided by paintman makes clear dealing with an insolvent estate can be rather more fraught than a mere intestacy. Be very sure you are fully up to speed and have all bases covered. Dealing with a persistent creditor/creditors who are none too keen to write off their loss can be exceptionally debilitating.http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
Sorry for your loss.
My piece of advice would be to obtain at least six copies of the death certificate when you register his death. It's easier and cheaper to do it at that time, you will need certificates and photocopies are usually unacceptable.
Good luck sorting everything out. Take a look at the government website on intestacy - google search on uk intestacy will bring it up.
My piece of advice would be to obtain at least six copies of the death certificate when you register his death. It's easier and cheaper to do it at that time, you will need certificates and photocopies are usually unacceptable.
Good luck sorting everything out. Take a look at the government website on intestacy - google search on uk intestacy will bring it up.
Thanks all - much appreciated.
We're not talking mega-money in terms of debts and it will all be unsecured personal credit or HP on things like a TV or freezer, a few grand at most. I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
I think I've got the important bases covered now, funeral director is in place, post-mortem will be Thursday or Friday and I'll be sure to request extra copies of the death certificate. I'll take a list of everything of value in the flat and retain it.
Everything after that is just paperwork and making sure I join the dots properly.
We're not talking mega-money in terms of debts and it will all be unsecured personal credit or HP on things like a TV or freezer, a few grand at most. I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
I think I've got the important bases covered now, funeral director is in place, post-mortem will be Thursday or Friday and I'll be sure to request extra copies of the death certificate. I'll take a list of everything of value in the flat and retain it.
Everything after that is just paperwork and making sure I join the dots properly.
Sympathies for your loss. Just to add when my mum died her sum total of life's possessions was 5 carrier bags of stuff, and we threw four of them away. She had a bank account with a few hundred pounds in it. The money in that went straight to the funeral director to go someway towards the cost of the funeral. No will, very simple to do in my case.
Agree with other posters, get several certified copies of the DC, will make the whole process easier and quicker.
Agree with other posters, get several certified copies of the DC, will make the whole process easier and quicker.
Firstly - Sorry for your loss.
Secondly - There are others better placed that me to advise you on this here.
Thirdly - Way to go Dad! I strongly suspect that you were reasonably aware that there might be little inheritance about for you and had accepted this which in my book makes you Dad dying (just) in debt a bloody hero! With no children of my own my dream scenario would be to check out just as the last penny is withdrawn from my account, although I would settle for leaving £100 for a high street lender to write off if I had to
Secondly - There are others better placed that me to advise you on this here.
Thirdly - Way to go Dad! I strongly suspect that you were reasonably aware that there might be little inheritance about for you and had accepted this which in my book makes you Dad dying (just) in debt a bloody hero! With no children of my own my dream scenario would be to check out just as the last penny is withdrawn from my account, although I would settle for leaving £100 for a high street lender to write off if I had to
Sorry for your loss. There are some really handy guys that post on the Death, funeral and probate section of the moneysavingexpert forum. Consensus there when debts are greater than assets seems to be do as little as possible as you don't want to get drawn into sorting out any debts.
That certainly puts a different complexion on things. I was planning to do "the right thing" by trying to deal with the creditors as I thought it was my responsibility to get it all tied up.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
charltjr said:
That certainly puts a different complexion on things. I was planning to do "the right thing" by trying to deal with the creditors as I thought it was my responsibility to get it all tied up.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
I always thought it was odd, almost like you are ducking responsibility - but you aren't and you have enough to deal with.Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
charltjr said:
We're not talking mega-money in terms of debts and it will all be unsecured personal credit or HP on things like a TV or freezer, a few grand at most. I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
Condolences on the loss of your father - but the comment about banger racing is easily the funniest thing I've read all week!charltjr said:
That certainly puts a different complexion on things. I was planning to do "the right thing" by trying to deal with the creditors as I thought it was my responsibility to get it all tied up.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
I don't think there's any danger in telling them you are administering the estate, odds are if the sums are low they will write the debts off anyway, so it may be worth talking with them and indicating that the estate is probably insolvent and asking them of their position. You never know, you might wind up with a few quid as a result of that.Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
Edited by Cyberprog on Friday 13th February 12:21
TooMany2cvs said:
charltjr said:
I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
There'll always be somebody willing to lend money at a suitably usurious interest rate.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff