Litigation Question
Discussion
My witness has sent his statement back to them, so that bit has now been done. As usual I have heard nothing from them at all, so emailed this afternoon to chase it up. All I received was this:
"The file has been transferred to my supervisor and he will be in contact with you in due course.
With regards to the court dates, that is many months down the line (if it even gets to court) and you would be advised accordingly at that time."
As far as I know the file has been being "reviewed" for the best part of 2 months now, so I am not sure what to take from the predictable response. Loads more waiting I guess although I can't help but think there is little hope of much coming of this any more.
"The file has been transferred to my supervisor and he will be in contact with you in due course.
With regards to the court dates, that is many months down the line (if it even gets to court) and you would be advised accordingly at that time."
As far as I know the file has been being "reviewed" for the best part of 2 months now, so I am not sure what to take from the predictable response. Loads more waiting I guess although I can't help but think there is little hope of much coming of this any more.
Update, the case is going to court. After spending literally all week chasing this, and having failed to get through to my case handler despite repeated phone calls and emails, the file has now been passed to her supervisor, who I spoke to today and he has provided me with all the clarity and answers I needed. Why I could not have had this conversation months ago is beyond me. It is almost like the original handler was avoiding me, never returning calls or responding to emails.
To provide the update, the case has been approved suitable to court, and the papers are now being prepared. I will be sent forms to sign regarding this. My witness has provided a statement, and one that reads in my favour. This is important, and is a good basis for now rejecting the 30% liability they are saying they are prepared to take. So, it may be further offers are made, or it may go all the way to court. Either way I now have the contact details for this chap, who I presume is an actual solicitor rather than a clerk, and he assures me there will be a conclusion.
I am also hoping that this confidential document that the third party insurer won't disclose is an independant accident report that also reads in my favour, hence why they may not be disclosing it's content.
So things should start happening again soon.
To provide the update, the case has been approved suitable to court, and the papers are now being prepared. I will be sent forms to sign regarding this. My witness has provided a statement, and one that reads in my favour. This is important, and is a good basis for now rejecting the 30% liability they are saying they are prepared to take. So, it may be further offers are made, or it may go all the way to court. Either way I now have the contact details for this chap, who I presume is an actual solicitor rather than a clerk, and he assures me there will be a conclusion.
I am also hoping that this confidential document that the third party insurer won't disclose is an independant accident report that also reads in my favour, hence why they may not be disclosing it's content.
So things should start happening again soon.
Finally, progress.
Totally different department now involved and I have received, signed and sent back court papers. All offical, statement of fact all correct and detailed, all being arranged through my local county court, and all correctly titled i.e Me via my solicitor vs The Insurance Company.
These papers have just been received by the insurance company so now I will either be going to court in the not too distant future or will be receiving an amended offer from the insurance company.
Will update when either happens.
Totally different department now involved and I have received, signed and sent back court papers. All offical, statement of fact all correct and detailed, all being arranged through my local county court, and all correctly titled i.e Me via my solicitor vs The Insurance Company.
These papers have just been received by the insurance company so now I will either be going to court in the not too distant future or will be receiving an amended offer from the insurance company.
Will update when either happens.
Month after court proceedings initiated, and as usual, no response from Hastings. So looking like this is going to go all the way to the last minute now. That will be around 2 years after the incident until a resolution. Hastings won't know that my career is road safety, accident investigation and road traffic law, so I can't wait to have my day in court - I'm literally chomping at the bit to be able to evidence the circumstances.
So useless that the FSA slapped it with a fine of nearly three quarters of a million GBP back in 2008 for its shoddy treatment of its OWN customers. So God help anyone like the OP who has the misfortune to find the TP is insured with them. I would never ever buy ANY (not just motor) insurance product from HD.
This continues to drag on. Since the case has now been approved for court as of May and the court judgement initiated, ( and acknowledged) things have been pretty slow. I am not sure what processes go on, but suffice to say I have had little update if any since May, and despite continuing to ask for when a court date will be likely and what the next stage is, I am told it is a matter of time and waiting.
Interesting response this week to an email I sent them, my email was just to clarify that in terms of figures, nothing has changed since 10 months ago when the claim was valued. This was the response :
"You are correct that we had valued your claim at £6000-£7000 plus financial losses. As it stands your financial losses are just over £3000 so the total value of the claim is in the region of £10,000. You have, however, already received an interim payment of £2,500. Therefore, if liability is settled on a 100% basis in your favour (this is currently disputed), and the Defendants made you an offer of £10,000, you would receive the net sum of £7,500 after the interim payment is taken off.
If liability is settled 50/50 i.e. both parties are found equally liable, you would receive 50% of the value of your claim. For example, the Defendants may agree the value your claim at £10,000; this would be reduced to £5,000 (50% liability settlement); and reduced further to £2,500 as you would have already receive the interim of £2,500.
I can see that the Defendants have previously offered 70/30 liability split in the Defendant’s favour. If you wish to try and settle your claim sooner rather than later, we can make a 50/50 liability offer. As above, if the Defendants accepted this – and accepted that the value of your claim was around £10,000 – you would receive £2,500 after the interim payment was deducted."
It all makes sense to me when put like this, although I am slightly confused as to an apparent choice I have over liabilty and that I may choose to try and settle earlier. It is still me continually approaching them for updates and this is the first time there has been any suggestion that I may like to negotiate on liability.
I am not looking for the other party to take 100% liability, and am happy to take some blame, only because despite the fact I could have done nothing my experience should have led me away from this ever happening. But I can't accept 50/50, it's just not right.
I think their client left them back in 2014 and as far as I know they have nothing from her, no real defence and certainly no willingness to attend any court hearing as there is no incentive for her.
So I am now wondering what will happen next.
Interesting response this week to an email I sent them, my email was just to clarify that in terms of figures, nothing has changed since 10 months ago when the claim was valued. This was the response :
"You are correct that we had valued your claim at £6000-£7000 plus financial losses. As it stands your financial losses are just over £3000 so the total value of the claim is in the region of £10,000. You have, however, already received an interim payment of £2,500. Therefore, if liability is settled on a 100% basis in your favour (this is currently disputed), and the Defendants made you an offer of £10,000, you would receive the net sum of £7,500 after the interim payment is taken off.
If liability is settled 50/50 i.e. both parties are found equally liable, you would receive 50% of the value of your claim. For example, the Defendants may agree the value your claim at £10,000; this would be reduced to £5,000 (50% liability settlement); and reduced further to £2,500 as you would have already receive the interim of £2,500.
I can see that the Defendants have previously offered 70/30 liability split in the Defendant’s favour. If you wish to try and settle your claim sooner rather than later, we can make a 50/50 liability offer. As above, if the Defendants accepted this – and accepted that the value of your claim was around £10,000 – you would receive £2,500 after the interim payment was deducted."
It all makes sense to me when put like this, although I am slightly confused as to an apparent choice I have over liabilty and that I may choose to try and settle earlier. It is still me continually approaching them for updates and this is the first time there has been any suggestion that I may like to negotiate on liability.
I am not looking for the other party to take 100% liability, and am happy to take some blame, only because despite the fact I could have done nothing my experience should have led me away from this ever happening. But I can't accept 50/50, it's just not right.
I think their client left them back in 2014 and as far as I know they have nothing from her, no real defence and certainly no willingness to attend any court hearing as there is no incentive for her.
So I am now wondering what will happen next.
Greenish said:
...This continues to drag on. Since the case has now been approved for court as of May and the court judgement initiated, ( and acknowledged) things have been pretty slow. ...
A quick skim of the thread suggests that your solicitors are doing a bad job, because they should have explained the process to you, and should keep you updated. The phrase "approved for court as of May and the court judgement initiated, ( and acknowledged)" is meaningless. Cases are not "approved for court". No judgement has been "initiated", still less "acknowledged". Perhaps because you have apparently duff solicitors you find yourself uttering such phrases. Serious suggestion: talk about the case using plain English, and ask that your solicitors do likewise.
What I was told was that when the best offer from the third party was 70/30 in their favour, the case was reviewed and the solicitors have decided that it is worthwhile taking the matter to court, as opposed to not bothering, so the case was "approved for court" so to speak. I was then told that the court process has begun, I had the court papers sent through the post including all the statements of fact, signed them, sent them back, and Hastings are aware that this has happened. That was back in May.
What I am unclear about is what has been happening since then, as I have received no updates and it feels like I am no closer to court than I was months ago. I have sent the solicitors a frank email last night on the back of all this to try and get a further update but to my mind it is strange that Hastings simply do nothing during all of this. It's coming up to 18 months now.
A friend of mine is convinced it is because Hastings know they are on to a loser and are just biding their time as it is not costing them. He suggests the cost only starts the day before a court hearing as that is when they send the papers to the barrister to actually digest and try and prepare a defence to the case. So far, as far as I know, Hastings have nothing, and I have my version of events which are meticulous, as well as an independent witness and all the medical reports from the doctor who assessed me. I know they sent a collision investigator to the scene weeks after the event to compile a report, I think that's all they have. It will be interesting to hear this report and comment on it, firstly seeing as it was compiled without any consultation of me, the casualty and party involved, and secondly, because I too work in that field.
What I am unclear about is what has been happening since then, as I have received no updates and it feels like I am no closer to court than I was months ago. I have sent the solicitors a frank email last night on the back of all this to try and get a further update but to my mind it is strange that Hastings simply do nothing during all of this. It's coming up to 18 months now.
A friend of mine is convinced it is because Hastings know they are on to a loser and are just biding their time as it is not costing them. He suggests the cost only starts the day before a court hearing as that is when they send the papers to the barrister to actually digest and try and prepare a defence to the case. So far, as far as I know, Hastings have nothing, and I have my version of events which are meticulous, as well as an independent witness and all the medical reports from the doctor who assessed me. I know they sent a collision investigator to the scene weeks after the event to compile a report, I think that's all they have. It will be interesting to hear this report and comment on it, firstly seeing as it was compiled without any consultation of me, the casualty and party involved, and secondly, because I too work in that field.
Your friend knows nothing and you should not listen to him! You have some solicitors, I gather. If you don't like them, and can't make them work harder for you, change them, unless you are tied to them by your insurer. Do not listen to random friends, or people on a car forum!
Costs in civil litigation are front end loaded these days. Late instruction of counsel still occurs, especially at the bargain basement end of the system (even at the posh end, the market is often a spot market, based on price); but the idea that the defendant will not even begin to think about what his/her/its case might be until the day before the hearing is rather unlikely to be correct.
If you only started your claim in May (and that is what I think you might be saying), then you can't expect a hearing for quite a while yet.
Your solicitors are probably a bulk business outfit, working on the basis of pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap (but not really cheap, because cheap gets done twice, if not more times). They get the actual work done (to the extent that it gets done at all) by people who may not possess opposable thumbs. The other side will probably be similarly represented. Think of what Matthew Arnold said in "Dover Beach" about ignorant armies clashing by night. Even if they get a barrister involved, it will be some twelve year old barrister from some Mickey Mouse chambers that I have never have heard of. There are lawyers, and there are lawyers. In other words, it's just the same as with car mechanics, doctors, plumbers, etc.
The case will probably settle, but you may have to chivvy a bit to get the offer that you want.
Costs in civil litigation are front end loaded these days. Late instruction of counsel still occurs, especially at the bargain basement end of the system (even at the posh end, the market is often a spot market, based on price); but the idea that the defendant will not even begin to think about what his/her/its case might be until the day before the hearing is rather unlikely to be correct.
If you only started your claim in May (and that is what I think you might be saying), then you can't expect a hearing for quite a while yet.
Your solicitors are probably a bulk business outfit, working on the basis of pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap (but not really cheap, because cheap gets done twice, if not more times). They get the actual work done (to the extent that it gets done at all) by people who may not possess opposable thumbs. The other side will probably be similarly represented. Think of what Matthew Arnold said in "Dover Beach" about ignorant armies clashing by night. Even if they get a barrister involved, it will be some twelve year old barrister from some Mickey Mouse chambers that I have never have heard of. There are lawyers, and there are lawyers. In other words, it's just the same as with car mechanics, doctors, plumbers, etc.
The case will probably settle, but you may have to chivvy a bit to get the offer that you want.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th July 11:52
Breadvan72 said:
Your solicitors are probably a bulk business outfit, working on the basis of pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap (but not really cheap, because cheap gets done twice, if not more times). They get the actual work done (to the extent that it gets done at all) by people who may not possess opposable thumbs. The other side will probably be similarly represented. Think of what Matthew Arnold said in "Dover Beach" about ignorant armies clashing by night. Even if they get a barrister involved, it will be some twelve year old barrister from some Mickey Mouse chambers that I have never have heard of. There are lawyers, and there are lawyers. In other words, it's just the same as with car mechanics, doctors, plumbers, etc.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 25th July 11:52
The op has alluded to the fact he may be a cop and has a legal cover policy.
Legal cover can be arranged through the police federation - they use S&G (amongst others).
Never was a truer word said - there are lawyers and there are lawyers.
S&G are a big firm. They advertise loads on TV.
It will be the luck of the draw who deals with this - you might get Kavanagh QC or you might get My Cousin Vinnie.
It will probably be the latter.
Greenish said:
A friend of mine is convinced it is because Hastings know they are on to a loser and are just biding their time as it is not costing them. He suggests the cost only starts the day before a court hearing as that is when they send the papers to the barrister to actually digest and try and prepare a defence to the case.
The other side will be incurring costs from the outset. For example when they filed a defence they will have (hopefully) looked into the matter, which takes time. And time is money.To draft a witness statement takes time. To prepare a disclosure list takes time. To prepare a bundle takes time. All these costs add up.
As noted above, there is a strong chance that both sides are "panel" firms, which means that (IMHO) they will both wish to settle with the minimum of fuss expended. This is because they may well be on a fixed fee which will not be a lucrative sum.
Breadvan72 said:
I don't know much about Slater and Gordon, but the general word on the legal street is that they are not exactly Clifford Chance.
They're an Australian firm.S&G moved into the UK market a number of years ago with the acquisition of Russell Jones and Walker (long-standing Police Federation solicitors) and, more recently, Fentons.
Quite a number of staff were previously employed by RJW or Fentons.
S&G are expanding - especially in the area of PI. Lots of TV ads (up here anyway) touting for business.
I've had dealings with them through the Police Federation. Some good, some not so good.
Edited by Red 4 on Saturday 25th July 16:07
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