Litigation Question

[LoonR1]

pork911 said:

Greenish said:

I think the valuation is very very high and would be happy with half of that to be honest, I just want to get it done and dusted and move on.

based on anything other than what you want, now? that is of course entirely your perogative

your solicitors are unlikely to massively overvalue it not least because of managing expectations

£8500 for what the OP's described though? That's high to say the least.

[Greenish]

Durzel said:

At the risk of poking the elephant in the room, there appears to be evidence on this very forum of the OP riding at an group event in early October of last year, so one would presume that the injuries sustained at the time of the accident weren't life changing.

They certainly not life changing no, and I can still ride perfectly well.

[pork911]

LoonR1 said:

pork911 said:

Greenish said:

I think the valuation is very very high and would be happy with half of that to be honest, I just want to get it done and dusted and move on.

based on anything other than what you want, now? that is of course entirely your perogative

your solicitors are unlikely to massively overvalue it not least because of managing expectations

£8500 for what the OP's described though? That's high to say the least.

and he's now added more detail which was always likely

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

[pork911]

Greenish said:

Durzel said:

At the risk of poking the elephant in the room, there appears to be evidence on this very forum of the OP riding at an group event in early October of last year, so one would presume that the injuries sustained at the time of the accident weren't life changing.

They certainly not life changing no, and I can still ride perfectly well.

you're forgetting your underwear modelling career is ruined by the scars, the embarassment they cause at the beach on holidays and you can't wear shorts anymore


a year (even longer) is not at all unusual and while it could have been quicker if you had paid your solicitors privately by the hour etc for a quick and high quality service you wouldn't be able to recover the vast majority of those fees

as always there are three levels of service: quick, quality and cheap - pick two

[LoonR1]

pork911 said:

and he's now added more detail which was always likely

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

The info that's coming out is starting to get a bit frustrating though. It was "£10k following their medical exam" at the start, that then dropped to £8.5k, with £2.5k already having been paid and now the remaining £6k includes special damages for his "rather expensive bike". Why he'd now want to settle for less is quite interesting. How expensive is this bike? How much is actually for injury, loss of amenity etc?

[Greenish]

To clarify and this was always from the start, I just forgot to mention cost of the bike at the beginning.

Bike cost 3.5k.

Initial Payment received of 2.5k.

Months go past, medical happens, I then get a valuation of the injury which is documented as 6 - 7k.

Therefore that brings a total valuation of 3.5k + 7k, which is 10.5k. I have received 2.5k already, so, that leaves 8k left to settle.

I of course do not expect to get this amount, nor am I even convinced I am entitled to this amount, however, this is what I have been presented with.

[LoonR1]

Then get into your solicitors and explain
1. You think they've overvalued it
2. That this seems to be dragging unnecessarily
3. to put an offer to the insurer that you believe is fair
4. To breakdown the claim into its component parts so that you can see whether you're happy with what's been / being paid.

Have to say though that I'm not sure you're better placed to value the claim than they are. How much did you get for the bike? Is that the £2.5k interim payment or was that for general damages?

[JustinP1]

pork911 said:

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

I have a very good solicitor who also does injury claims, very well.

When he looked at my papers, he pointed out the name of the other parties solicitors, showed his assistant and had a chuckle.

He then proceeded to tell me the last time he dealt with them was a PI claim where the other side wanted £30k. Quantum was the only issue. Early on in negotiation offers were made, topping out at £12,000. The other side wouldn't budge and went to court.

My solicitor explained the negotiation outside the courtroom, where offers went up, higher then he would have liked, but up to his client's limit. The other parties solicitor turned down £21,000.

60 minutes later, the judgment was for around £8000. Hence why they still laughed about it now. The other solicitor lost his client £13k, and the final value meant that there were costs implications too.

So, as you've said, in the real world there can be two very different valuations of a claim.

What concerns me is if the solicitors have stated 'were not going to accept anything less than X' then expectations are set and the above situation can occur, something which was solely fuelled by a solicitor 'over egging' the potential value of an entitlement to a client.

[pork911]

LoonR1 said:

pork911 said:

and he's now added more detail which was always likely

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

The info that's coming out is starting to get a bit frustrating though. It was "£10k following their medical exam" at the start, that then dropped to £8.5k, with £2.5k already having been paid and now the remaining £6k includes special damages for his "rather expensive bike". Why he'd now want to settle for less is quite interesting. How expensive is this bike? How much is actually for injury, loss of amenity etc?

that's always the way and its neither of our first rodeo


other than a side interest the figure/s and what for never mattered, only an idiot solicitor would set himself up for such a fall with a massive overvaluation to his client


as always, for various reasons not all clients want the maximum above all else

[LoonR1]

There are idiot solicitors as well as idiot insurers

[pork911]

JustinP1 said:

pork911 said:

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

I have a very good solicitor who also does injury claims, very well.

When he looked at my papers, he pointed out the name of the other parties solicitors, showed his assistant and had a chuckle.

He then proceeded to tell me the last time he dealt with them was a PI claim where the other side wanted £30k. Quantum was the only issue. Early on in negotiation offers were made, topping out at £12,000. The other side wouldn't budge and went to court.

My solicitor explained the negotiation outside the courtroom, where offers went up, higher then he would have liked, but up to his client's limit. The other parties solicitor turned down £21,000.

60 minutes later, the judgment was for around £8000. Hence why they still laughed about it now. The other solicitor lost his client £13k, and the final value meant that there were costs implications too.

So, as you've said, in the real world there can be two very different valuations of a claim.

What concerns me is if the solicitors have stated 'were not going to accept anything less than X' then expectations are set and the above situation can occur, something which was solely fuelled by a solicitor 'over egging' the potential value of an entitlement to a client.

i've never met anyone in any trade who talks down a fellow

overegging is the preserve of idiot solicitors (entirely possible) but there is simply no upside for the solicitor to do so in their advice to their client

as per your story the solicitor and barrister may have been incompetent or more likely the story is incomplete and told for effect

Edited by pork911 on Wednesday 11th February 12:53

[pork911]

LoonR1 said:

There are idiot solicitors as well as idiot insurers

entirely possible (as i've said ) but there is no upside / grand conspiracy or whatever for non-idot solicitors to deliberately shoot themselves in the foot

[JustinP1]

pork911 said:

JustinP1 said:

pork911 said:

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

I have a very good solicitor who also does injury claims, very well.

When he looked at my papers, he pointed out the name of the other parties solicitors, showed his assistant and had a chuckle.

He then proceeded to tell me the last time he dealt with them was a PI claim where the other side wanted £30k. Quantum was the only issue. Early on in negotiation offers were made, topping out at £12,000. The other side wouldn't budge and went to court.

My solicitor explained the negotiation outside the courtroom, where offers went up, higher then he would have liked, but up to his client's limit. The other parties solicitor turned down £21,000.

60 minutes later, the judgment was for around £8000. Hence why they still laughed about it now. The other solicitor lost his client £13k, and the final value meant that there were costs implications too.

So, as you've said, in the real world there can be two very different valuations of a claim.

What concerns me is if the solicitors have stated 'were not going to accept anything less than X' then expectations are set and the above situation can occur, something which was solely fuelled by a solicitor 'over egging' the potential value of an entitlement to a client.

i've never met anyone in any trade who talks down a fellow

overegging is the preserve of idiot solicitors (entirely possible) but there is simply no upside for the solicitor to do so in their advice to their client

as per your story the solicitor and barrister may have been incompetent or more likely the story is incomplete and told for effect

Quite - that story above is the downside for the solicitor.

With regards to the veracity of the story, the guy had exact figures to the nearest '000 and the junior solicitor/paralegal knew the case as well, and the solicitor is a very straight talking guy so I would bet it was the truth.

[pork911]

JustinP1 said:

pork911 said:

JustinP1 said:

pork911 said:

only an idiot solicitor (entirely possible) would overvalue massively (in letters to client) knowing full well any offer received is going to be substantially lower and he'll then have to advise settling on that

I have a very good solicitor who also does injury claims, very well.

When he looked at my papers, he pointed out the name of the other parties solicitors, showed his assistant and had a chuckle.

He then proceeded to tell me the last time he dealt with them was a PI claim where the other side wanted £30k. Quantum was the only issue. Early on in negotiation offers were made, topping out at £12,000. The other side wouldn't budge and went to court.

My solicitor explained the negotiation outside the courtroom, where offers went up, higher then he would have liked, but up to his client's limit. The other parties solicitor turned down £21,000.

60 minutes later, the judgment was for around £8000. Hence why they still laughed about it now. The other solicitor lost his client £13k, and the final value meant that there were costs implications too.

So, as you've said, in the real world there can be two very different valuations of a claim.

What concerns me is if the solicitors have stated 'were not going to accept anything less than X' then expectations are set and the above situation can occur, something which was solely fuelled by a solicitor 'over egging' the potential value of an entitlement to a client.

i've never met anyone in any trade who talks down a fellow

overegging is the preserve of idiot solicitors (entirely possible) but there is simply no upside for the solicitor to do so in their advice to their client

as per your story the solicitor and barrister may have been incompetent or more likely the story is incomplete and told for effect

Quite - that story above is the downside for the solicitor.

With regards to the veracity of the story, the guy had exact figures to the nearest '000 and the junior solicitor/paralegal knew the case as well, and the solicitor is a very straight talking guy so I would bet it was the truth.

and IF the story is complete only an idiot would set up a trap for themselves to then jump into


there's various reasons other than a way off valuation it could have all come undone for the non-idiot solicitor there


anyhow, your solicitor's junior is unlikely to call him on an incomplete story in front of a client or anyone else for that matter and if he's that straight forward how many stories where he's dropped a bk has he told you?

[JustinP1]

pork911 said:

and IF the story is complete only an idiot would set up a trap for themselves to then jump into

there's various reasons other than a way off valuation it could have all come undone for the non-idiot solicitor there

anyhow, your solicitor's junior is unlikely to call him on an incomplete story in front of a client or anyone else for that matter and if he's that straight forward how many stories where he's dropped a bk has he told you?

I agree.

The guy was well respected and the head of a department in a firm of about 50, so I would guess the number of times he's dropped a bk is rather less.

However, my point is, bks do get dropped, and cases can be overvalued. In the OP's reporting, in the solicitors own words they have currently purposefully overvalued the claim already:

Greenish said:

I have had 2.5k already and my solicitor have stated in writing to me they will not accept less than a further 6k, making a minimum total of 8.5k. They have asked for more than this though, to allow room for negotiation.

[Greenish]

I may be wrong but I get the impression S and G are quite a reputable and competent company. They have certainly always been consistent with me and very clear cut, so despite being a very sceptical person I do believe this will have a positive outcome.

I have already asked why it has taken so long, to which the general response is that the third party always respond within the time scales required, but do not respond satisfactorily. For example, they were recently approached for an update on offers and their response was to ask for information they already had / were given at the start of the claim (about valuation of my bike). So it seems that by responding they cover themselves (i.e they are not ignoring my solicitor) but they continually dodge the actual conclusion of the claim by either asking for more information or stating "it is being looked at". Heel dragging for want of a better word.

[pork911]

JustinP1 said:

pork911 said:

and IF the story is complete only an idiot would set up a trap for themselves to then jump into

there's various reasons other than a way off valuation it could have all come undone for the non-idiot solicitor there

anyhow, your solicitor's junior is unlikely to call him on an incomplete story in front of a client or anyone else for that matter and if he's that straight forward how many stories where he's dropped a bk has he told you?

I agree.

The guy was well respected and the head of a department in a firm of about 50, so I would guess the number of times he's dropped a bk is rather less.

However, my point is, bks do get dropped, and cases can be overvalued. In the OP's reporting, in the solicitors own words they have currently purposefully overvalued the claim already:

Greenish said:

I have had 2.5k already and my solicitor have stated in writing to me they will not accept less than a further 6k, making a minimum total of 8.5k. They have asked for more than this though, to allow room for negotiation.

they are open to him about that in their advice so that negotiation fat isn't any part of an overvaluation - as long as the other side offer within sufficient risk range of their real valuation their advice will be to settle (unless idiots)


(aside - in OP's case none of it matters since he wants to settle now at a much lower figure - i imagine their offer will exceed it or at the very least be sufficient for his urgency)


my point is that no non-idiotic solicitor purposefully overvalues - there is simply no upside for them whatsoever in doing so

[pork911]

Greenish said:

I may be wrong but I get the impression S and G are quite a reputable and competent company. They have certainly always been consistent with me and very clear cut, so despite being a very sceptical person I do believe this will have a positive outcome.

I have already asked why it has taken so long, to which the general response is that the third party always respond within the time scales required, but do not respond satisfactorily. For example, they were recently approached for an update on offers and their response was to ask for information they already had / were given at the start of the claim (about valuation of my bike). So it seems that by responding they cover themselves (i.e they are not ignoring my solicitor) but they continually dodge the actual conclusion of the claim by either asking for more information or stating "it is being looked at". Heel dragging for want of a better word.

in general terms the heel dragging is unlikely to be deliberate or some ploy

assuming all your ducks are in a row and there's no other reason for the delay, if no offer is soon forthcoming issuing proceedings will be needed

[Greenish]

Thanks for the replies. I will update when I hear more.

[Jasandjules]

LoonR1 said:

Of course, your solicitor won't be dragging this out amd trying to get it near to limitation so that they have to litigate and can then bump their fees up to whatever they want. Oh no, that would never, ever happen.

You seem to have forgotten that at any point the insurer could make a fair offer.. A Part 36 even. Get the ball rolling very quickly and even resolved. Save all those nasty lawyer fees....

OP, I regret to advise that historically, certain claims were dealt with by instruction from the insurer to delay as much as possible in the hope that the claimant would die of their disease. Perhaps Mr Loon will dispute or deny this, but I was trained by some who were so instructed.

In short however, yes, delay, frustration and so on can be tactical. BUT, quite often incompetence also has a large part to play....