81mph in 50mph - speed camera van - advice please?
Discussion
LoonR1 said:
Not my solution. I speed pretty well everywhere and all the time traffic permitting. I just don't blame others if I get caught. I blame myself for a lack of observation. The chances of getting caught are infinitesimal when you look at how often you can speed. Open your eyes amd you're unlikely to get
I have never been caught but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future. - All it takes is an unmarked car or mobile trap getting you at max range, as you crest a hill or similar. I generally stick to the limit in residential areas or in places I don't know but when I do choose to go out for a spirited drive however, I could find myself in the OP's boat (dock?). I don't consider that fair or acceptable, nor do I accept that I have anything to answer for. I'd only feign an apology to lessen any spiteful punishment and any such situation will only serve to entrench my views.I don't have any problem with accepting responsibility for my actions (e.g. if I caused a crash) but regarding inappropriate limits, I'm pretty resolute. The problem is not with me.
Clivey said:
I have never been caught but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future. - All it takes is an unmarked car or mobile trap getting you at max range, as you crest a hill or similar. I generally stick to the limit in residential areas or in places I don't know but when I do choose to go out for a spirited drive however, I could find myself in the OP's boat (dock?). I don't consider that fair or acceptable, nor do I accept that I have anything to answer for. I'd only feign an apology to lessen any spiteful punishment and any such situation will only serve to entrench my views.
I don't have any problem with accepting responsibility for my actions (e.g. if I caused a crash) but regarding inappropriate limits, I'm pretty resolute. The problem is not with me.
What's inappropriate though? You may be a driving God amd capable of annihilating 99.99% of the driving public, so a speed limit that's appropriate for you may not be for others. The argument that they should just drive slower is tired as well, as young drivers tend not to think that way, whereas a speed limit may (emphasise may) make them moderate their speed a little. I don't have any problem with accepting responsibility for my actions (e.g. if I caused a crash) but regarding inappropriate limits, I'm pretty resolute. The problem is not with me.
It's a tiresome argument anyway. We have speed limits. They exist. They always will. Some will like them, some won't and some will be indifferent about them. One thing's for certain, you won't see them rising with anywhere near the same frequency as you'll see them reducing. So either suck it up and drive how you want to, or stress it and keep blaming "the man" whoever he is.
Johnnytheboy said:
Loon, what's your angle?
You spend the whole time on PH berating others for speeding and yet freely admit to doing so yourself.
I don't get it.
I don't berate anyone at all for speeding. I berate people for crying like a baby when they get caught, instead of taking ownership of their actions. I also enjoy calling people out who claim to have been caught for a fraction over the speed limit. You spend the whole time on PH berating others for speeding and yet freely admit to doing so yourself.
I don't get it.
If anyone comes on a bike ride with me, or sees me on track / racing bikes will know I'm not shy of speed and my current and previous car choices show I'm hardly going to pootle around either. However, I've only been penalised for speeding three times, the last was 16 years ago for 97.3mph on the M62. I got pulled in December last year for pretty well racing an unmarked car away from the lights, but got off by being polite and contrite.
In the main, (which means not always for those struggling with comprehension) I tend to spot the police well in advance and adjust my speed accordingly. I don't speed excessively, but I don't dawdle either. I tend to drive at an indicated 10 mph over the limit in most places, although motorways are 90+, single carriageway NSLs a complete free for all and silly 50 limit dual carriageways get pretty well ignored.
Johnnytheboy said:
So you approve of speed limits and speeding at the same time, correct?
I believe that speed limits as a concept are needed. Every single civilised country that I can think of has them. Germany does have speed limits and they are rigidly enforced too, alongside the ever decreasing derestricted autobahns. I don't agree with all of the actual limits set, some are too low, some are too high, few are correct
Speed limits are needed as even though I tend to ignore the absolute figure, the fact there is a limit means that I will moderate my behaviour to a degree,as will everyone barring the most antisocial of drivers.
I don't believe people have to drive around in abject fear of being caught and staring at their speedometer constantly,mas some sensationalists on here would claim
I'm not scared of being caught, I'm not going to bleat and burst I to tears, or start a hissy fit thread on here when it happens. I'm going to pay the fine, take the points (or go on the SAC) and get on with my life and carry on driving as before. I'm not going to blame my driving above the limit on someone else.
The final comment for those demanding increased speed limits, start your campaign by demanding the speed limit on your road is increased.
Clear enough, or do you want to try to keep trying to out clever me? It'll take you quite a while if you do.
Clivey said:
So your solution is to solve the problem by obeying the problem limit I.E. being a sheep. 
Errr...no.
No, my answer as to who is to blame for you getting a speeding ticket is you. Blaming others for something that you can control is stupid. If you can't control it you shouldn't be driving.Errr...no.
If you think limits are being set too low then you don't solve it by getting a ticket.
NDA said:
V8Ford said:
Ha ha, all these silly sheep sticking to the speed limits.
I however, am an enlightened higher being because I can press my accelerator slightly harder until the needle goes past the posted limit. It takes balls, skill, and quite a long time.
Corrected that for you.I however, am an enlightened higher being because I can press my accelerator slightly harder until the needle goes past the posted limit. It takes balls, skill, and quite a long time.
LoonR1 said:
What's inappropriate though? You may be a driving God and capable of annihilating 99.99% of the driving public, so a speed limit that's appropriate for you may not be for others. The argument that they should just drive slower is tired as well, as young drivers tend not to think that way, whereas a speed limit may (emphasise may) make them moderate their speed a little.
Irony: Claiming an argument is "tired" whilst wheeling-out the "driving God" comments. 
The young driver issue is mainly down to lack of experience & training. Knowing the driving school business pretty well, it's obvious that the current system leaves a lot to be desired. Learners are currently only taught / are only interested in being taught how to pass a minimum standard test; not how to drive.
If someone repeatedly fails to choose an appropriate speed for the conditions, I'd venture that their observational skills aren't up to scratch. In that case, are they really fit to be driving at any speed?
LoonR1 said:
It's a tiresome argument anyway. We have speed limits. They exist. They always will.
Euromillions numbers please? Thanks.As self-driving cars become commonplace, the need for speed limits will dramatically reduce. - The machine will be able to determine a speed that's an ideal compromise between progress and safety. Once the "A to B" brigade don't have to busy themselves with the bothersome task of being a steering wheel attendant, they can stick to Facebook and leave driving to those who will take the time to train themselves to do it properly. Yes; the regulations will get more draconian for us but at some point, I predict that the Nanny State will come crashing down.
LoonR1 said:
Some will like them, some won't and some will be indifferent about them. One thing's for certain, you won't see them rising with anywhere near the same frequency as you'll see them reducing. So either suck it up and drive how you want to, or stress it and keep blaming "the man" whoever he is.
You won't be able to if the politicians have their way! "Black boxes", ISA, road pricing etc. will see to that!Johnnytheboy said:
So you approve of speed limits and speeding at the same time, correct?
You could make an argument that speed limits are useful in giving the masses (who might otherwise not be trusted to tie their own shoelaces, but nevertheless have a full UK driving licence) guidance on what sort of speed they should be doing. Sadly a lot of people need this sort of guidance.Choosing to exceed speed limits is a decision we all make numerous times on a daily basis. Despite the wearisome cries of "pretty soon The Man will stop us from being able to go faster than the limit!" it's not happened and - in pure practical terms - can't and won't happen.
What I think is pretty stupid is the notion that people don't have their own agency in speeding. It's fashionable nowadays for people to absolve themselves of any responsibility, and blame the system/The Man or whatever, but the fact remains we all regulate our speed with our own motor functions. Speeding, and getting caught, doesn't change the fact that the Law surrounding speeding, and punishments, is probably the most well known out there. Anyone who speeds sufficiently knows that they are a camera van or unmarked car away from receiving +3 points and -£100. It's not a crime of ignorance or passion, it's one of obstination and incredulity.
Speed if you want, as many (and I) do, but don't pretend that it's anything other than your fault if you get caught & punished for it.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 9th March 14:24
Clivey said:
The young driver issue is mainly down to lack of experience & training. Knowing the driving school business pretty well, it's obvious that the current system leaves a lot to be desired. Learners are currently only taught / are only interested in being taught how to pass a minimum standard test; not how to drive.
Ah, the old, new drivers aren't taught as well as we were argument. I'm sure you also believe that society is going to the dogs too...
The test is the minimum standard you have to achieve before you are allowed to drive unaccompanied. It's a lot tougher in the UK than in some other countries, so i'd suggest that the UKs minimum standard is actually quite high, especially since we have some of the safest roads in the world.
Clivey said:
As self-driving cars become commonplace, the need for speed limits will dramatically reduce. - The machine will be able to determine a speed that's an ideal compromise between progress and safety. Once the "A to B" brigade don't have to busy themselves with the bothersome task of being a steering wheel attendant, they can stick to Facebook and leave driving to those who will take the time to train themselves to do it properly.
Unless they're going to have self walking pedestrians there's always going to be a need to keep limits in all but motorways I'd suggest.Clivey said:
Yes; the regulations will get more draconian for us but at some point, I predict that the Nanny State will come crashing down.
No who's got his crystal ball out. Devil2575 said:
Unless they're going to have self walking pedestrians there's always going to be a need to keep limits in all but motorways I'd suggest.
Especially as you'll get the inevitable numpties who will 'test' driverless cars by jumping directly in front of them - only to find out the hard way that the laws of physics don't disappear along with human drivers. LoonR1 said:
I believe that speed limits as a concept are needed. Every single civilised country that I can think of has them. Germany does have speed limits and they are rigidly enforced too, alongside the ever decreasing derestricted autobahns.
I don't agree with all of the actual limits set, some are too low, some are too high, few are correct
Speed limits are needed as even though I tend to ignore the absolute figure, the fact there is a limit means that I will moderate my behaviour to a degree,as will everyone barring the most antisocial of drivers.
I'd advocate an approach similar to the Isle of Man, with speed limits in towns, residential areas etc. but here it's the country A/B-roads with as well as Motorways / DCs that need looking at. - Re. the latter, A 70mph limit is so 1960s; we should be aspiring towards more (time) efficient transportation and upgrading our Motorways / DCs to facilitate it. The 50 (or lower) mph limits that are creeping in on some sections are a joke...especially when you're not familiar with the area and so slow down (in case it's enforced), only to have the trucks swarming all over you.I don't agree with all of the actual limits set, some are too low, some are too high, few are correct
Speed limits are needed as even though I tend to ignore the absolute figure, the fact there is a limit means that I will moderate my behaviour to a degree,as will everyone barring the most antisocial of drivers.
Re. country A/B roads; how many ridiculous limit reductions are we seeing at the moment? The countryside seems to be one long conga line of 37mph-everywhere morons these days and it's getting to feel that unless you go out of your way to find an empty road at a quiet time of the day/night, there's no point in owning a performance car as you'll just be stuck in a log jam.
LoonR1 said:
I don't believe people have to drive around in abject fear of being caught and staring at their speedometer constantly,mas some sensationalists on here would claim
I'm not scared of being caught, I'm not going to bleat and burst I to tears, or start a hissy fit thread on here when it happens. I'm going to pay the fine, take the points (or go on the SAC) and get on with my life and carry on driving as before. I'm not going to blame my driving above the limit on someone else.
My wife's grandfather's just been caught speeding (in a 50 limit on a DC). He's not exactly the "boy racer" type and knowing him, he won't have been driving recklessly (the limit MUST have been too low if even he got caught! I'm not scared of being caught, I'm not going to bleat and burst I to tears, or start a hissy fit thread on here when it happens. I'm going to pay the fine, take the points (or go on the SAC) and get on with my life and carry on driving as before. I'm not going to blame my driving above the limit on someone else.
) but I can see he does feel that way - scared of cameras etc. - now and it's knocked his confidence. I don't think him being fined / given penalty points will improve his driving or road safety.I don't think the current approach re. speed limits and enforcement is productive at all, whether we're talking road safety or technical progress. When people are getting fined when "driving normally", it's obvious that the piss is well and truly being taken. The situation isn't the fault of a driver just going about their daily business and not doing anything reckless.
Devil2575 said:
Ah, the old, new drivers aren't taught as well as we were argument. I'm sure you also believe that society is going to the dogs too...
How old do you think I am? Devil2575 said:
The test is the minimum standard you have to achieve before you are allowed to drive unaccompanied. It's a lot tougher in the UK than in some other countries, so i'd suggest that the UKs minimum standard is actually quite high, especially since we have some of the safest roads in the world.
Agreed, however that doesn't mean we should become complacent. - All that really tells me is that there are a lot of utterly crap drivers elsewhere.Devil2575 said:
Unless they're going to have self walking pedestrians there's always going to be a need to keep limits in all but motorways I'd suggest.
A self driving car won't need posted limits - they'll be programmed to drive to the distance they can stop in & predict to remain clear. Obviously, you'll still get some idiots doing stupid things but sod it; we've messed with natural selection enough. Devil2575 said:
No who's got his crystal ball out.
I did say "I predict", rather than present my opinion as fact (e.g. "There will always be limits").Clivey said:
Devil2575 said:
Unless they're going to have self walking pedestrians there's always going to be a need to keep limits in all but motorways I'd suggest.
A self driving car won't need posted limits - they'll be programmed to drive to the distance they can stop in & predict to remain clear. Obviously, you'll still get some idiots doing stupid things but sod it; we've messed with natural selection enough. aww999 said:
LoonR1 said:
Clivey said:
Those who set the inappropriate limit.
Oh dear.We must all learn that his opinion is correct. Then everything will be fine.
Clivey said:
LoonR1 said:
I believe that speed limits as a concept are needed. Every single civilised country that I can think of has them. Germany does have speed limits and they are rigidly enforced too, alongside the ever decreasing derestricted autobahns.
I don't agree with all of the actual limits set, some are too low, some are too high, few are correct
Speed limits are needed as even though I tend to ignore the absolute figure, the fact there is a limit means that I will moderate my behaviour to a degree,as will everyone barring the most antisocial of drivers.
I'd advocate an approach similar to the Isle of Man, with speed limits in towns, residential areas etc. but here it's the country A/B-roads with as well as Motorways / DCs that need looking at. - Re. the latter, A 70mph limit is so 1960s; we should be aspiring towards more (time) efficient transportation and upgrading our Motorways / DCs to facilitate it. The 50 (or lower) mph limits that are creeping in on some sections are a joke...especially when you're not familiar with the area and so slow down (in case it's enforced), only to have the trucks swarming all over you.I don't agree with all of the actual limits set, some are too low, some are too high, few are correct
Speed limits are needed as even though I tend to ignore the absolute figure, the fact there is a limit means that I will moderate my behaviour to a degree,as will everyone barring the most antisocial of drivers.
Re. country A/B roads; how many ridiculous limit reductions are we seeing at the moment? The countryside seems to be one long conga line of 37mph-everywhere morons these days and it's getting to feel that unless you go out of your way to find an empty road at a quiet time of the day/night, there's no point in owning a performance car as you'll just be stuck in a log jam.
LoonR1 said:
I don't believe people have to drive around in abject fear of being caught and staring at their speedometer constantly,mas some sensationalists on here would claim
I'm not scared of being caught, I'm not going to bleat and burst I to tears, or start a hissy fit thread on here when it happens. I'm going to pay the fine, take the points (or go on the SAC) and get on with my life and carry on driving as before. I'm not going to blame my driving above the limit on someone else.
My wife's grandfather's just been caught speeding (in a 50 limit on a DC). He's not exactly the "boy racer" type and knowing him, he won't have been driving recklessly (the limit MUST have been too low if even he got caught! I'm not scared of being caught, I'm not going to bleat and burst I to tears, or start a hissy fit thread on here when it happens. I'm going to pay the fine, take the points (or go on the SAC) and get on with my life and carry on driving as before. I'm not going to blame my driving above the limit on someone else.
) but I can see he does feel that way - scared of cameras etc. - now and it's knocked his confidence. I don't think him being fined / given penalty points will improve his driving or road safety.I don't think the current approach re. speed limits and enforcement is productive at all, whether we're talking road safety or technical progress. When people are getting fined when "driving normally", it's obvious that the piss is well and truly being taken. The situation isn't the fault of a driver just going about their daily business and not doing anything reckless.
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