Arguments for raising the UK motorway speed limit

[Jonny_]

Would be keen to see those bloody awful "managed" motorways used for something constructive. Simplistically, when traffic conditions are suitable, they could allow 80mph in the outside lane of a 3-lane motorway.

[Kawasicki]

agtlaw said:

LoonR1 said:

Many autobahns do have speed limits though, although not federally set, there are big chunks with fixed limits which are rigidly enforced, ditto woth temporary limits for roadworks. I think it's about 40% that are permanently limited now.

Yes, some German motorways are not derestricted and they are very strict about temporary speed limits - possibly worth mentioning.

Just under 30% are permanently limited (maybe the other 10% is road works). Also...

.. no difference in accident rate between the limited and unlimited sections
.. Germany has lower fatalities per million km than Austria, Belgium and the USA

[agtlaw]

Kawasicki said:

Just under 30% are permanently limited (maybe the other 10% is road works). Also...

.. no difference in accident rate between the limited and unlimited sections
.. Germany has lower fatalities per million km than Austria, Belgium and the USA

Two measures to increase road / motorway safety:

Learner drivers must have compulsory motorway driving lessons (presently they are not allowed to drive on a motorway)
Remove self certification for over 70s. End the ludicrous situation whereby a GP / sight test is not required, at any age.

There's an argument that limits should not be raised until further road safety measures are put in place?

[SteveSteveson]

Kawasicki said:

Just under 30% are permanently limited (maybe the other 10% is road works). Also...

.. no difference in accident rate between the limited and unlimited sections
.. Germany has lower fatalities per million km than Austria, Belgium and the USA

And much hire than the UK, so it's not realy a good argument.

[covboy]

Jonny_ said:

Would be keen to see those bloody awful "managed" motorways used for something constructive. Simplistically, when traffic conditions are suitable, they could allow 80mph in the outside lane of a 3-lane motorway.

On Managed sections when traffic conditions are suitable, a lot of people already do 80mph in the outside lane. When traffic conditions don't allow - most people are doing a steady 60mph across 4 lanes

[Lil'RedGTO]

Type R Tom said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

Another solid point. A law which is not respected by (if the RAC figures are to be believed) more than two thirds of those subject to it is untenable and its continuing presence on the statute book brings the whole of the law into disrepute.

I don't think that is a workable, there are quite a few illegal activities out there committed by millions of people, doesn't mean that it should be dropped.

I can't think of any other crimes committed by two thirds of society. Littering perhaps, or dog fouling?

[Kawasicki]

Lil'RedGTO said:

Littering perhaps, or dog fouling?

Thankfully I'm pretty sure this isn't the case.

[LoonR1]

Lil'RedGTO said:

Type R Tom said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

Another solid point. A law which is not respected by (if the RAC figures are to be believed) more than two thirds of those subject to it is untenable and its continuing presence on the statute book brings the whole of the law into disrepute.

I don't think that is a workable, there are quite a few illegal activities out there committed by millions of people, doesn't mean that it should be dropped.

I can't think of any other crimes committed by two thirds of society. Littering perhaps, or dog fouling?

The 67% is people who have admitted to breaking the motorway speed limit. It doesn't say that they always do it, or that they do it frequently, or that even occasionally, they may have only done it once, but still owned up to it. So the real question is can you think of a law that 67% people have broken once in their life?

I bet I've broken 100s of laws in my lifetime, and I bet there are plenty out there too who have similar track records. How many have sampled some form of illegal drug for example? Or stolen something , no matter how small? Should we get rid of those too?

[Lil'RedGTO]

tapereel said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

According to a 2014 RAC Report, 67% of those surveyed admitted breaking the motorway speed limit. 70% of those surveyed were in favour of increasing the motorway speed limit to at least 80mph.

http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/report-on-motoring/rac-r...

Given those figures, increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph should be a no-brainer for any politician, and the current Government did flirt seriously with the idea a couple of years ago before a change of Transport Minister appeared to put paid to the idea.

Given all that, it seems like it might be worthwhile writing to the relevant Minister, particularly after the upcoming election, just to remind him or her that there are people out there (of whom I am one) who would like to see this policy revived. I don’t really expect doing so will change anything, but it might act as some form of counterpoint to the loud voice of Brake on the topic, and might just make me feel a little better for having done something.

The question is, what are the points you would make when writing to the Minister urging him to consider increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph?

Points against, ideally with rebuttals, also welcome.

Maybe you could just add in your real opinions on the limit; see this from Oct 2014:

Lil'RedGTO said:

mybrainhurts said:

Blakewater said:

If we lifted motorway speed limits tomorrow there would be lots of people thinking they can max out their cars and do 200mph carving through traffic doing 50mph.

I'd be interested to see your research. Or is that just your opinion?

Just my opinion, but I reckon it's more likely many people would do over the ton once, decide that it was a bit stressful and too bad on fuel consumption, and settle back down to a steady 80-90mph, much like some do now, but without being criminalised.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. On the hypothesis that limits were removed, my view (in October 2014 and now) is that I think it likely that speeds would not increase significantly beyond 80-90mph. However, I do not think there is a realistic prospect of limits being scrapped. I think there may be some prospect of the motorway limit being increased to 80mph, and am interested in the arguments for and against.

[LoonR1]

Lil'RedGTO said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. On the hypothesis that limits were removed, my view (in October 2014 and now) is that I think it likely that speeds would not increase significantly beyond 80-90mph. However, I do not think there is a realistic prospect of limits being scrapped. I think there may be some prospect of the motorway limit being increased to 80mph, and am interested in the arguments for and against.

There's no chance of the speed limit increasing. The arguments for will be many on a niche motoring enthusiasts forum, the sparguments against, probably much less. We aren't a significant majority and the limit won't increase.

[mybrainhurts]

LoonR1 said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. On the hypothesis that limits were removed, my view (in October 2014 and now) is that I think it likely that speeds would not increase significantly beyond 80-90mph. However, I do not think there is a realistic prospect of limits being scrapped. I think there may be some prospect of the motorway limit being increased to 80mph, and am interested in the arguments for and against.

There's no chance of the speed limit increasing. The arguments for will be many on a niche motoring enthusiasts forum, the sparguments against, probably much less. We aren't a significant majority and the limit won't increase.

You seem to have missed the OP...

Lil'RedGTO said:

According to a 2014 RAC Report, 67% of those surveyed admitted breaking the motorway speed limit. 70% of those surveyed were in favour of increasing the motorway speed limit to at least 80mph.

[Lil'RedGTO]

LoonR1 said:

The 67% is people who have admitted to breaking the motorway speed limit. It doesn't say that they always do it, or that they do it frequently, or that even occasionally, they may have only done it once, but still owned up to it. So the real question is can you think of a law that 67% people have broken once in their life?

I bet I've broken 100s of laws in my lifetime, and I bet there are plenty out there too who have similar track records. How many have sampled some form of illegal drug for example? Or stolen something , no matter how small? Should we get rid of those too?

Fair point, although I suspect that those who admitted to breaking the motorway speed limit have done so more than once and in fact do so with some regularity. I am not sure exactly how the question in the RAC survey was worded, but I get the impression it was along the lines of "Do you speed on the motorway?" Of course, the point about bringing the law into disrepute is just one argument. I am interested in all arguments, for and against.

[panholio]

I cannot think of a logical reason why the managed sections couldn't have limits raised to 80, 90mph or even 100mph during off peak times.

I see higher travelling speeds and shorter journey times as an indication of progress. Cars, motorway design and safety have progressed significantly since the limits were originally devised.

[Jon1967x]

panholio said:

I cannot think of a logical reason why the managed sections couldn't have limits raised to 80, 90mph or even 100mph during off peak times.

I see higher travelling speeds and shorter journey times as an indication of progress. Cars, motorway design and safety have progressed significantly since the limits were originally devised.

One reason is certain vehicles are limited to 55. The spread of speed is a danger.

Question though; which would you prefer, 70 as it is with a risk of getting caught but 90 is relatively easy to do, or an 80 limit which is heavily enforced?

[Lil'RedGTO]

I do have some concern that, with technology where it is, any move to increase the limit would be accompanied by some form of rigid enforcement. Better the devil you know?

[robinessex]

mygoldfishbowl said:

I agree there should be a voice to oppose the likes of brake but as someone who uses our motorways on a daily bases I wouldn't like to see the speed limit for cars raised, or dropped for that matter, from a mainly selfish point of view.

Off you go then to the ABD website then. http://www.abd.org.uk/ Don't forget to send of your subscription

[anonymous-user]

agtlaw said:

Learner drivers must have compulsory motorway driving lessons (presently they are not allowed to drive on a motorway)

Apart from one week 'crash' courses how do many people in the country fulfil this requirement especially in a 1 or 2 hr time slot lesson Unless they have a day or 2 away.

Will it has been a prerequisite of the test similar to the theory part ie making it a 3 part test ?

agtlaw said:

There's an argument that limits should not be raised until further road safety measures are put in place?

The x heights on signs are being increased as motorway lanes get wider and the driving population gets older with worse eyesight, that's before you get to quicker 'lead' in times and less time to read and absorb signage as speeds increase.

Much of the older infrastructure and radius etc may have only been designed for 70ish mph impacts so will also need to be uprated like the safety systems in cars that takes time.

That's a couple of the 'excuses' anyway

[SteveSteveson]

panholio said:

I cannot think of a logical reason why the managed sections couldn't have limits raised to 80, 90mph or even 100mph during off peak times.

I see higher travelling speeds and shorter journey times as an indication of progress. Cars, motorway design and safety have progressed significantly since the limits were originally devised.

A big reason is that many (in the case of 80mph) to most (at 100mph) cars are not happy at an increased speed. Whilst most cars do not have a problem reaching those speeds, they are not happy sitting at it. The average 1.2 or less city shopper car that many people own would not be able to travle at those increased speeds. Motorway congestion is caused mostly by two things, people travling too close and speed differential. Increasing speeds would just make it worse. Can you imagin the chaos having elephant racing lorries in lane 1 and 2 with people getting even more annoyed at people wanting to overtake them who are realistically maxing out at 80 when they want to do 100mph legally? It's bad enough as it is if you do 70 in lane 3.

[robinessex]

Blakewater said:

If we lifted motorway speed limits tomorrow there would be lots of people thinking they can max out their cars and do 200mph carving through traffic doing 50mph.

Er, I find in traffic doing 50mph I'm also doing 50mph !!! I've tried to go faster, but all the other cars are in the way !!!

[Pit Pony]

agtlaw said:

Yes, some German motorways are not derestricted and they are very strict about temporary speed limits - possibly worth mentioning.

The way I understand it is or was that if you crash in a derestricted bit, they will throw the dangerous/careless driving charge at you. Clearly the logic is that if you crashed, you were not in control.

Uncle crashed in the late 70's coming off a slip road, and managed to keep his German licence by the skin of his teeth.