Arguments for raising the UK motorway speed limit

[panholio]

SteveSteveson said:

panholio said:

I cannot think of a logical reason why the managed sections couldn't have limits raised to 80, 90mph or even 100mph during off peak times.

I see higher travelling speeds and shorter journey times as an indication of progress. Cars, motorway design and safety have progressed significantly since the limits were originally devised.

A big reason is that many (in the case of 80mph) to most (at 100mph) cars are not happy at an increased speed. Whilst most cars do not have a problem reaching those speeds, they are not happy sitting at it. The average 1.2 or less city shopper car that many people own would not be able to travle at those increased speeds. Motorway congestion is caused mostly by two things, people travling too close and speed differential. Increasing speeds would just make it worse. Can you imagin the chaos having elephant racing lorries in lane 1 and 2 with people getting even more annoyed at people wanting to overtake them who are realistically maxing out at 80 when they want to do 100mph legally? It's bad enough as it is if you do 70 in lane 3.

Don't buy this I'm afraid. Many cars are not happy at 80mph?! Many? And my point was using the managed sections (which monitor traffic flow) to allow increased limits at quieter times. There are loads of sections of motorway where at the quietest times well over 100mph is perfectly safe.

[Mave]

Phatboy317 said:

What premise?

Small speed differentials do tend to clog up the works.
Just one example: you want or need to change lanes, due to slower traffic ahead or vehicles joining the motorway.

If there's slower traffic ahead and no speed differential between lanes, why do you need to change lanes? If there's someone joining the motorway, why aren't they managing the speed differential by approaching at, say, 60 rather than relying on you moving out of the way?

[chrisb92]

The funny thing about this topic is that you can pass a police car on the motorway at 80 and not get pulled over.

Also, when on a motorway with no cameras, who actually stick to 70 if they don't want to? No one. The fact is increasing it to 80 would be no use as if there's no traffic I'm going to go much faster than that! And a lot of people do the same! Quite regularly I'm keeping pace with other cars at 90.

[agtlaw]

chrisb92 said:

The funny thing about this topic is that you can pass a police car on the motorway at 80 and not get pulled over.

http://twitter.com/middlelanemoron/status/566567980814049280/photo/1

[Phatboy317]

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

What premise?

Small speed differentials do tend to clog up the works.
Just one example: you want or need to change lanes, due to slower traffic ahead or vehicles joining the motorway.

If there's slower traffic ahead and no speed differential between lanes, why do you need to change lanes? If there's someone joining the motorway, why aren't they managing the speed differential by approaching at, say, 60 rather than relying on you moving out of the way?

I'm not at all sure that you understood me correctly

[Mave]

Phatboy317 said:

I'm not at all sure that you understood me correctly

Ok, you gave 2 examples of how speed differentials facilitate changing lanes, and I don't see why it would be beneficial to change lanes in those circumstances. What have I missed?

[Phatboy317]

Mave said:

Ok, you gave 2 examples of how speed differentials facilitate changing lanes, and I don't see why it would be beneficial to change lanes in those circumstances. What have I missed?

For instance, what do you do when you come up behind someone doing 60mph in the lane you're in?
Or you're in lane 1 and someone enters the motorway in front of you doing 40mph?

Why should you have to slow down and waste your own fuel, when you wouldn't have to if you were able to change lanes?

Edited by Phatboy317 on Thursday 19th February 23:32

[Mave]

Phatboy317 said:

For instance, what do you do when you come up behind someone doing 60mph in the lane you're in?

Assuming you're in lane 2, you move into lane 3 when it's clear. If you're doing 70, you've got more than 3 times as long for a gap in lane 3 than if you're doing 90

Phatboy317 said:

Or you're in lane 1 and someone enters the motorway in front of you doing 40mph?

Not sure how being allowed to do 90 instead of 70 helps when people pull into your lane going too slowly

[Wills2]

Jonny_ said:

Would be keen to see those bloody awful "managed" motorways used for something constructive. Simplistically, when traffic conditions are suitable, they could allow 80mph in the outside lane of a 3-lane motorway.

They do now.

[Phatboy317]

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

For instance, what do you do when you come up behind someone doing 60mph in the lane you're in?

Assuming you're in lane 2, you move into lane 3 when it's clear. If you're doing 70, you've got more than 3 times as long for a gap in lane 3 than if you're doing 90

The point is that if lane 3 isn't clear then you have to slow down or brake. A small speed differential just makes it far more likely that lane 3 isn't going to be clear when you need it to be.

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

Or you're in lane 1 and someone enters the motorway in front of you doing 40mph?

Not sure how being allowed to do 90 instead of 70 helps when people pull into your lane going too slowly

What's your fixation with 90mph?

[Mave]

Phatboy317 said:

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

Or you're in lane 1 and someone enters the motorway in front of you doing 40mph?

Not sure how being allowed to do 90 instead of 70 helps when people pull into your lane going too slowly

What's your fixation with 90mph?

I'm responding to your proposal. You said "the speed which mathematically gives you the best compromise is just over 90mph"

[Mave]

Phatboy317 said:

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

For instance, what do you do when you come up behind someone doing 60mph in the lane you're in?

Assuming you're in lane 2, you move into lane 3 when it's clear. If you're doing 70, you've got more than 3 times as long for a gap in lane 3 than if you're doing 90

The point is that if lane 3 isn't clear then you have to slow down or brake. A small speed differential just makes it far more likely that lane 3 isn't going to be clear when you need it to be.

Well no, the likelihood that there is a gap is exactly the same assuming same traffic separation.
If there isn't a gap then one will come along sooner with greater speed differentials, but if you're going to accelerate to lane 3 speed to avoid causing a ripple then you've got less time for that gap to come along.

[chrisb92]

agtlaw said:

http://twitter.com/middlelanemoron/status/56656798...

Haha, I liked that! It's so true, though. You have that point where you've edged passed and think 'hmmm am I out of the zone and can now carry on as I was???!'

[Munter]

Wills2 said:

Jonny_ said:

Would be keen to see those bloody awful "managed" motorways used for something constructive. Simplistically, when traffic conditions are suitable, they could allow 80mph in the outside lane of a 3-lane motorway.

They do now.

You'll get a ticket in the M4/M5 section if you do 80. The cameras are active all the time even if there is no reduced limit. Some people have tickets for ~74mph I believe.

[Corbeliere]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned speedo error so far. If your speedo is showing 80, you are most likely doing a real 73/4 MPH. That's why the Cops don't pull you.
No brainer really.
Personally, I would start with the driving test. The advanced test should become the norm' and I can't see any reason why that shouldn't be the case.
Secondly, I would have a proper clamp down on middle lane prats.
Thirdly, yes, I would like the motorway limits to be raised on stretches where it is feasible. The M25 towards the Eurotunnel for example.

Would I max out my car given the chance. Maybe now and again, but, as it will do just shy of 200 MPH I would be thinking about the fuel bill.
I think 80/90 would be just fine for me. Also, the faster I drive, the more I concentrate.

[Phatboy317]

Mave said:

I'm responding to your proposal. You said "the speed which mathematically gives you the best compromise is just over 90mph"

That was a separate issue

[Phatboy317]

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

Mave said:

Phatboy317 said:

For instance, what do you do when you come up behind someone doing 60mph in the lane you're in?

Assuming you're in lane 2, you move into lane 3 when it's clear. If you're doing 70, you've got more than 3 times as long for a gap in lane 3 than if you're doing 90

The point is that if lane 3 isn't clear then you have to slow down or brake. A small speed differential just makes it far more likely that lane 3 isn't going to be clear when you need it to be.

Well no, the likelihood that there is a gap is exactly the same assuming same traffic separation.
If there isn't a gap then one will come along sooner with greater speed differentials, but if you're going to accelerate to lane 3 speed to avoid causing a ripple then you've got less time for that gap to come along.

(fixed the formatting)

With a decent speed differential you seldom have to wait more tan a few seconds for a suitable gap, unless perhaps the traffic is heavy.
With a small differential you may have a gap next to you, in which case there's no problem. But you may have another vehicle next to you, in which case you'll probably have to wait a lot longer than a few seconds.
Look at what happens with lorries - they really do take ages to pass one another.

[Kawasicki]

Corbeliere said:

Also, the faster I drive, the more I concentrate.

This doesn't get enough attention. It's another benefit of increased speed limits.

I lived in Australia for a few years, in an area with heavily enforced speed limits. Dopey drivers everywhere. Smacking into each other, drifting around in their lanes, spooking each other, running into the back of each other. Yet politicians and road safety experts were confused why their road safety strategy wasn't effective.

[Hooli]

Kawasicki said:

Corbeliere said:

Also, the faster I drive, the more I concentrate.

This doesn't get enough attention. It's another benefit of increased speed limits.

I lived in Australia for a few years, in an area with heavily enforced speed limits. Dopey drivers everywhere. Smacking into each other, drifting around in their lanes, spooking each other, running into the back of each other. Yet politicians and road safety experts were confused why their road safety strategy wasn't effective.

One day when all my old stuff isn't in storage I'll get the article by Stirling Moss (he wasn't a Sir back then) about 'why the 70 limit is dangerous because it makes you drive slower than is natural & therefore pay less attention to driving' scanned.

[Wills2]

Munter said:

Wills2 said:

Jonny_ said:

Would be keen to see those bloody awful "managed" motorways used for something constructive. Simplistically, when traffic conditions are suitable, they could allow 80mph in the outside lane of a 3-lane motorway.

They do now.

You'll get a ticket in the M4/M5 section if you do 80. The cameras are active all the time even if there is no reduced limit. Some people have tickets for ~74mph I believe.

The managed sections I travel on m62 and M1 do not flash at an indicated 80mph (I know that's probably less than a true 80)

How can you get a ticket for 74mph? That's like getting pulled over for doing 42mph in a 40 zone, things are getting out of hand.