'Van cuts up police car and gets pulled over.'

[Martin_M]

Bigends said:

The van driver had no option but to move over in order to clear the cyclist and the bus lane.

Yes, but you would still glance at your mirror to make sure it's safe to do so no? Considering he started in the left lane of two going straight ahead onto a road merging into one...

[carinaman]

That he didn't defer to the police vehicle could indicate that he didn't look in his mirror?

The officer knew the road was going down to one lane due to the start of the bus lane? If they did, why didn't they hang back and let the van zip merge?

Awareness, anticipation, forward planning?

'The van driver could have been on the phone'?

Perhaps the officer was on their radio and that distracted them from remembering there was a bus lane about to start and that they'd need to merge down to one lane shortly?

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 19th February 22:13

[Blakewater]

Retroman said:

Is stopping not an option?

It's an option, yes, but it's far better for two lanes of traffic to move smoothly into one at lane merge points rather than one grind to a halt because people in the other won't just cooperate.

The van driver seemed to hesitate before committing to moving out, so I think he had seen the police car but probably expected courtesy and common sense from him.

[Moonhawk]

Although the van could have indicated - the van was clearly ahead of the police car by the time they reached the merge point. The police car accelerated to try and go up the side of the van and was squeezed as a result.

There were clear signs on the lamp posts showing the left lane was turning into a bus lane and that there was therefore a merge point. The two cars ahead of the van and the police car managed to merge in turn with no issue and the police car was well placed to observe this.

Hate to say it - but I'm with the van driver on that one. All the police driver had to do to avoid a potential incident was not accelerate as rapidly as he did. Instead he tried to go for a gap he/she knew would be closing and they saw their arse as a result.

[carinaman]

Moonhawk said:

Hate to say it - but I'm with the van driver on that one. All the police driver had to do to avoid a potential incident was not accelerate as rapidly as he did. Instead he tried to go for a gap he/she knew would be closing and they saw their arse as a result.

Would they have passed the IAM or RoSPA advanced driving tests driving like that?

[WilliamWoollard]

What are the times and days of operation for that bus lane?

What time/day was the video taken?

[Moonhawk]

WilliamWoollard said:

What are the times and days of operation for that bus lane?

What time/day was the video taken?

It's not given - but even if the bus lane wasn't in operation - the police car saw the cars ahead merge in turn (perhaps in response to the cyclist), so IMO it would be reasonable to expect the van would be doing so too.

[Geekman]

carinaman said:

Would they have passed the IAM or RoSPA advanced driving tests driving like that?

I'd imagine you wouldn't even pass a standard driving test if you accelerated into a gap which was obviously closing like that police car did.

[Martin4x4]

Osinjak said:

Or does it?

Bit of an old one this (2013) that I found in an idle moment. I thought it was a legit move on the van's part, he was ahead already and Mr Polis decides to accelerate going through the junction and is 'forced' back. Subsequently gets pulled although I can't unequivocally say that it was for a dodgy manoeuvre, may have had some checks over the wireless and found other reasons to pull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icopwLTYII4&sp...

I know that junction and it is a bit of a problem in practice. Drivers that use lanes correctly and stay left are disadvantaged. The right hand lane is usually used by traffic turning right but some vehicles go straight on and ignore the priority merge arrow like the Police Car did. There is fault with both drivers, the van should have made better observations and indicated. It could probably have proceeded down the bus lane which is only active for a couple of hours during the morning rush hour. The Police driver should have been more considerate give the merge arrow and local knowledge. Humberside use Fiesta are ordinary patrol cars not Traffic.

[AA999]

Does the highway code define "merge in turn" ?

I think the wording refers to "merging" in to other traffic "in turn", ie. not all at once.
So if a line of traffic is in lane 3 and 200m ahead is a lane closure of lane 3, then traffic should merge in to spaces 'one by one'?

It leaves the question as to how it could, in practice, be done otherwise?


But I think the highway code does leave open the further interpretation of a 'merge', in as far as who has priority in either yielding or merging.
If its a simple case of who's vehicle is further along the road then it becomes a 'race' to fill the gap ahead. There surely must be a requirement from the highway code to give clear indication on who has priority, otherwise, as we see on the roads these days, nobody wants to be courteous anymore.

[Dryce]

carinaman said:

I am not sure I believe this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31525040

Police cuts, or the unification of the Scottish constabularies meant they didn't keep any people with IT knowledge that were fully versed in the importance of back ups?

Perhaps the scenario put forward seems more plausible if delivered in a Scottish accent?

It's either (a) worryingly implausible or (b) worryingly poor implementation, procedures and backup practices.

Very very unsatisfactory. Given the way things work in Scotland it probably won't go any further as the way Holyrood seems to work it really doesn't like to take responsibility for it's own dirty laundry - it's much more comfortable about highlighting issues where responsibility lies elsewhere.

[Mound Dawg]

Martin4x4 said:

could probably have proceeded down the bus lane which is only active for a couple of hours during the morning rush hour.

The only problem I could see with him heading off down the bus lane was that he'd have taken out the cyclist...

[funkyrobot]

Police driver quite clearly behaved in an idiotic fashion in that clip. You could see the numpty accelerate as the gap was closing.

Imagine if the police car was a member of the public's vehicle and the person filming was a policeman/woman. Who would they pull in that situation? The person merging or the person clearly speeding up as the gap was closing.

[SK425]

Osinjak said:

Or does it?

Bit of an old one this (2013) that I found in an idle moment. I thought it was a legit move on the van's part, he was ahead already and Mr Polis decides to accelerate going through the junction and is 'forced' back. Subsequently gets pulled although I can't unequivocally say that it was for a dodgy manoeuvre, may have had some checks over the wireless and found other reasons to pull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icopwLTYII4&sp...

Didn't look spectacularly brilliant on the part of the van driver. There's not a huge amount of time and space to for the drivers to arrange themselves into the merge. The van driver doesn't initially move off decisively to get clearly ahead of the police car - probably not an option because of the cyclist - but then accelerates, only to have to immediately brake. All looked like he wasn't thinking more than half a second ahead. Gave the impression that while they were all still stopped, he'd already he'd committed in his mind to merging ahead of the police car despite the cyclist ahead of him - very poor planning if that's the case.

Didn't look especially brilliant on the part of the police car driver either. The police car initially seems to hang back as if intending to merge behind the van - sensible. But then it appears to accelerate as the van brakes, but by that point it's far too late to be thinking of merging ahead of the van, and it's entirely predicatable that the space he's accelerating towards is going to shrink. Not sure what was going through the driver's mind - belligerently intending to leave the van driver stranded perhaps?

Poor marks all round in my view.

I don't think we know why the van was pulled over do we?

[carinaman]

Dryce said:

It's either (a) worryingly implausible or (b) worryingly poor implementation, procedures and backup practices.

Police Scotland lose 20,000 Stop & Search records when an unknown person presses a button while video evidence of some questionable driving by a police officer lives on forever thanks to the Internet and YouTube.

[speedking31]

WilliamWoollard said:

What are the times and days of operation for that bus lane?

What time/day was the video taken?

This is one of the problems with rigorous Bus Lane enforcement by camera. If you're in heavy traffic and don't have time to read the essay that describes the bus lane operating times and the exemptions then the safest course in an unfamiliar area is to not venture in. In the old days you could have used the first few metres of the lane as you know you're not holding up a bus and then merged when it was safer or more convenient. I tend to stay out of Bus Lanes unless I'm sure that they are not operational.

[anonymous-user]

Ian Geary said:

Maybe a coincidence, but this is second time in 15 minutes on SP&L tonight where an entirely imaginary set of events has been put forward as a reason to defend the police's behavior, or rebut what appears to be a valid criticism of them.

Its almost as if the Police have been conditioned to see the world in a "we're right, everyone else is wrong" way, and then just invent reasons to support this view afterwards.

Hypothetical speculation is wholly different from putting forward a made-up scenario as fact.

The police are conditioned to consider unknowns. If you were ever caught on CCTV hitting someone, you'd be quite glad the police will ask things like, "What information is there that isn't captured here?"


From what we can see, regardless of what the van driver did wrong, the police driver didn't plan and anticipate sufficiently.

[M6L11]

From the police car's (advanced driver's) perspective:

Police driver said:

I'm stationary at traffic lights. Road signs and road markings ahead indicate that after the junction lane one becomes a bus lane and traffic merges into lane 2, where I'm situated. There's a cyclist in the bus lane, with traffic waiting alongside me in lane one. Green light, I'm moving away. Confirmed the cyclist is creating a conflict hazard and traffic alongside will want to merge, as the traffic ahead is already doing. The van hasn't indicated but I'm already off the gas and indeed he is now starting to change direction within his own lane...

At this point I'd fully expect the police vehicle (or any other) to be off the gas in anticipation and then allow the van to merge before matching his acceleration. In this case he or she instead increases the drive and despite coming into conflict with the van he continues to push alongside before 'losing out' and finally dropping back.

In my opinion it was pretty poor planning to say the least. Yes the van ideally ought to have indicated (especially as his size obstructs the vision of road users around him), but a good AD wouldn't rely solely on information from other road users to plan their drives. From the type of police vehicle I'd say their level of training would only be local response anyway, rather than something more properly advanced. Just my unqualified 2p.

[caziques]

So, when two lanes go into one - is the right lane going into the left or the left lane going into the right?

If there was no traffic around the correct lane to be in is clearly the left, and I believe there is no need to indicate if you are in the left hand lane as you are not changing lanes. Anyone in the right hand lane should indicate left as they are the ones changing lanes.

In my opinion the van driver was completely correct, clearly well ahead of the police car - who in any case should have been indicating.

In my more tongue in cheek modes I reckon indicators should be banned, cause more problems than they are worth.

[g3org3y]

Blakewater said:

Good driving is about observation, anticipation and cooperation. Allowing people to change lanes and move round hazards on the road without forcing them to brake excessively helps keep everyone happy and safe and keep the traffic flowing smoothly.

I very much agree with this.

I didn't see that from the police driver in the video. To be honest, driving like this is a routine occurrence on my daily drive in/out of London. Somewhat of a non event imo.