Legality of slip road speed traps
Discussion
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Browsing this thread, its funny how hypocritical people can be. For example:
I don't recall being told the speed limit doesn't apply to slip roads when I got my license. If anything, a speed check in the slip way is arguably safer than on the main section IMO, and would send a clear message to people joining the road to watch their speed.
To conclude, the OP has invented an imaginary situation from a second hand account where the police car is parked "vertically" (?) on the slip road, preventing people from getting onto the road, and putting everyone in grave danger of their life.
Whilst I'm sure imaginary evidence is much easier to find than "real" evidence, it doesn't quite have the same weight in my view.
Ian
Chim said:
Can I also just say that the responses, namely, arrogance and abusive replies I have received from what what appear to be serving police officers in answer to a very polite and genuine question...
Yet, a short time earlier...Chim said:
At which point did I whine about the Police, I asked for opinions on a particular situation, if you have nothing useful to add then p
s off
s offChim said:
ps off
s offChim said:
Please go play silly little boy elsewhere and come back when you grow up.
Chim said:
Christ on a bike, stop being so anal.
So who is in fact dishing out the abusive replies I wonder? (Clue, it's the OP) after being given an answer he didn't want to hear and therefore can't accept.I don't recall being told the speed limit doesn't apply to slip roads when I got my license. If anything, a speed check in the slip way is arguably safer than on the main section IMO, and would send a clear message to people joining the road to watch their speed.
To conclude, the OP has invented an imaginary situation from a second hand account where the police car is parked "vertically" (?) on the slip road, preventing people from getting onto the road, and putting everyone in grave danger of their life.
Whilst I'm sure imaginary evidence is much easier to find than "real" evidence, it doesn't quite have the same weight in my view.
Ian
Ian Geary said:
Browsing this thread, its funny how hypocritical people can be. For example:
I don't recall being told the speed limit doesn't apply to slip roads when I got my license. If anything, a speed check in the slip way is arguably safer than on the main section IMO, and would send a clear message to people joining the road to watch their speed.
To conclude, the OP has invented an imaginary situation from a second hand account where the police car is parked "vertically" (?) on the slip road, preventing people from getting onto the road, and putting everyone in grave danger of their life.
Whilst I'm sure imaginary evidence is much easier to find than "real" evidence, it doesn't quite have the same weight in my view.
Ian
Yip, thanks for your input, I will discuss this with my invisible friend get back to you. Chim said:
Can I also just say that the responses, namely, arrogance and abusive replies I have received from what what appear to be serving police officers in answer to a very polite and genuine question...
Yet, a short time earlier...Chim said:
At which point did I whine about the Police, I asked for opinions on a particular situation, if you have nothing useful to add then ps off
s offChim said:
ps off
s offChim said:
Please go play silly little boy elsewhere and come back when you grow up.
Chim said:
Christ on a bike, stop being so anal.
So who is in fact dishing out the abusive replies I wonder? (Clue, it's the OP) after being given an answer he didn't want to hear and therefore can't accept.I don't recall being told the speed limit doesn't apply to slip roads when I got my license. If anything, a speed check in the slip way is arguably safer than on the main section IMO, and would send a clear message to people joining the road to watch their speed.
To conclude, the OP has invented an imaginary situation from a second hand account where the police car is parked "vertically" (?) on the slip road, preventing people from getting onto the road, and putting everyone in grave danger of their life.
Whilst I'm sure imaginary evidence is much easier to find than "real" evidence, it doesn't quite have the same weight in my view.
Ian
I really do give up on this thread
Truffs said:
My God what a thread !
What is this forum coming to?........
Likewise, 4rephill, who if really needed to inform vonhosen of the understanding of the OP could have done it in a PM. Instead he looked like some sort of wind up merchant.........
Thank for publicly voicing your personal opinion of Myself based on My previous post in this thread, but allow Me to point out the irony of your statement: What is this forum coming to?........
Likewise, 4rephill, who if really needed to inform vonhosen of the understanding of the OP could have done it in a PM. Instead he looked like some sort of wind up merchant.........
Edited by Truffs on Friday 27th February 02:09
Having checked My emails, I do not appear to have received your PM advising Myself of your opinion!
On the basis of this evidence I can only assume that you feel it is perfectly acceptable to publicly voice your opinion on a subject, but not for Myself to publicly voice My opinion! - A case of kettles and pots if ever there was one!
My understanding is that the Pistonheads.com forum section is a public forum for people to give advice and voice their opinions on subjects and as such, I have as much right to publicly inform vonhosen that he's wasting his time trying to educate the OP, as you do to express your opinion that I am: "some sort of wind up merchant".
(I would have to say though that I fail to see how informing someone that they are wasting their breath trying to get someone else to understand a simple concept when that person repeatedly refuses to accept the concept is a wind up!
). I suppose I could have informed you of My opinion of your opinion of My character in a PM, but where would be the fun in that?
(My apologies to others in this thread for going off-topic!)
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
Seems to me that there are three independent and unrelated questions - are they allowed to do it, should they be allowed to do it, and in any given situation, is it a good idea to do it. And perhaps a fourth, which is whether any of that makes the slightest difference to someone caught committing an offence while they do it.
In the case of whether it's a good idea to do it, I guess I would ask whether the contravention they are excused from is of a proportionate magnitude to the one they aim to prevent or detect.
In the case of whether it's a good idea to do it, I guess I would ask whether the contravention they are excused from is of a proportionate magnitude to the one they aim to prevent or detect.
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
For instance
The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
Not shooting the messenger, just wondering out loud why an officer's punctuality in a court matter should apparently be deemed more important than, say, a surgeon's punctuality in an emergency operating room.The courts have held that an officer driving his own private car to court who was late for court & got caught speeding on way to it was using the exemption lawfully. The court applied the letter of the law, it was a Police purpose & observing the limit would have hindered that purpose. His colleagues didn't think it was and put him before a court (unsuccessfully), but such behaviour would be in breach of internal policy and result in discipline proceedures (it being a specific example in the driving regs of being an inappropriate use).
That goes to the nub of why people complain.
I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
vonhosen said:
No I'm not. I asked for a google maps link (several times) so that we could see/make a judgement for ourselves on the appropriateness or not.
I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
Van, your info is very factual, you do though come across very dryly in the deliver and tone. Thats not a put down of any kind just an observation really. On the maps, I have already said that google maps does not allow me to copy the content, I have though detailed the junction and the roads, its very easy to look up. That said, they are motorway slip roads and one is very much like the other regardless of where you are in the country.I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
I just wanted to engage in debate on the subject, as it is I have ended up constantly defending myself and countering put downs etc. In hindsight I should have just ignored and risen above but hey ho, Ph is a strange place these days.
Edited by Chim on Saturday 28th February 16:11
otolith said:
Seems to me that there are three independent and unrelated questions - are they allowed to do it, should they be allowed to do it, and in any given situation, is it a good idea to do it. And perhaps a fourth, which is whether any of that makes the slightest difference to someone caught committing an offence while they do it.
In the case of whether it's a good idea to do it, I guess I would ask whether the contravention they are excused from is of a proportionate magnitude to the one they aim to prevent or detect.
On the last point i would agree with that measure. You could then ask if there where alternative ways that the duty could be undertaken could be executed without the need to contravene the regulation or place the public any any danger. In this case the answer is I think yes, easily.In the case of whether it's a good idea to do it, I guess I would ask whether the contravention they are excused from is of a proportionate magnitude to the one they aim to prevent or detect.
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
No I'm not. I asked for a google maps link (several times) so that we could see/make a judgement for ourselves on the appropriateness or not.
I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
Van, your info is very factual, you do though come across very dryly in the deliver and tone. Thats not a put down of any kind just an observation really. On the maps, I have already said that google maps does not allow me to copy the content, I have though detailed the junction and the roads, its very easy to look up. That said, they are motorway slip roads and one is very much like the other regardless of where you are in the country.I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
I just wanted to engage in debate on the subject, as it is I have ended up constantly defending myself and countering put downs etc. In hindsight I should have just ignored and risen above but hey ho, Ph is a strange place these days.
Edited by Chim on Saturday 28th February 16:11
Bigends said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
No I'm not. I asked for a google maps link (several times) so that we could see/make a judgement for ourselves on the appropriateness or not.
I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
Van, your info is very factual, you do though come across very dryly in the deliver and tone. Thats not a put down of any kind just an observation really. On the maps, I have already said that google maps does not allow me to copy the content, I have though detailed the junction and the roads, its very easy to look up. That said, they are motorway slip roads and one is very much like the other regardless of where you are in the country.I provided a link for complaints to the OP should he wish to make one in relation to his question as to what one should do who felt aggrieved.
I just wanted to engage in debate on the subject, as it is I have ended up constantly defending myself and countering put downs etc. In hindsight I should have just ignored and risen above but hey ho, Ph is a strange place these days.
Edited by Chim on Saturday 28th February 16:11
Whether there was a sizeable hard shoulder on the slip road etc etc.
That's before we actually get to the question of whether they were there for speed enforcement or not.
vonhosen said:
Well so we can see & make a judgement how dangerous it would be to be stopped in the actual location in question.
Whether there was a sizeable hard shoulder on the slip road etc etc.
That's before we actually get to the question of whether they were there for speed enforcement or not.
We are away again, I have already quoted the junctions where they commonly sit. Feel free to look them up on google maps.Whether there was a sizeable hard shoulder on the slip road etc etc.
That's before we actually get to the question of whether they were there for speed enforcement or not.
There is no hard shoulder on these slips
This is common practice now here in Scotland, they are undertaking speed trap exercises, in fact I have witnessed them coming off the slips in pursuit of offenders and have passed them before on the slips, the reason the sit diagonally is so they can mount the camera on the passenger window and point down the motorway, people now even publish up on Facebook with warning of which slip roads they are sitting on. They also undertake the practice on bypasses slip roads commonly as well.
Short of stopping off to take a picture and interrogating them I do not know how much clearer i can be.
Mk3Spitfire said:
How many accidents have been caused by police vehicles parked on slip roads?
No idea, perhaps none. The fact remains though that the road traffic department deem it to be such a high risk that is it completely forbidden to stop on a slip. If we take the tact that its not a safety issue you are effectively saying that the no stopping law is wrong. I am sure though if I stopped on the slip to make a quick call prior to joining the motorway I would quickly receive a ticket along with a lecture on the dangers of the practice and rightly so in my mind.I am also now sure that I had came on here to complain about being ticketed for stopping on the slip in a bright red car I would be quickly dispatched by the same folks here that are now trying to defend the action, I can also guarantee no one would ask for pics of the slip in order to make an assessment.
Chim said:
No idea, perhaps none. The fact remains though that the road traffic department deem it to be such a high risk that is it completely forbidden to stop on a slip. If we take the tact that its not a safety issue you are effectively saying that the no stopping law is wrong. I am sure though if I stopped on the slip to make a quick call prior to joining the motorway I would quickly receive a ticket along with a lecture on the dangers of the practice and rightly so in my mind.
I am also now sure that I had came on here to complain about being ticketed for stopping on the slip in a bright red car I would be quickly dispatched by the same folks here that are now trying to defend the action, I can also guarantee no one would ask for pics of the slip in order to make an assessment.
So you can condemn the action, but others defending it is unnaceptable? It seems then, that you actually came on here to state it was wrong, as opposed to ask for opinions?I am also now sure that I had came on here to complain about being ticketed for stopping on the slip in a bright red car I would be quickly dispatched by the same folks here that are now trying to defend the action, I can also guarantee no one would ask for pics of the slip in order to make an assessment.
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