Legality of slip road speed traps

[vonhosen]

Mopar440 said:

Hey, give the OP a break! He's posted a very valid question and just received the usual PH bo||ocks from the usual suspects, including "of the trousers".

But someone please explain why a police car would be situated on a slip road on to a (presumably) NSL road, apparently trying to catch people speeding? Are the slip roads not designed for drivers to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to enter the NSL carriageway?

The situation re the law has been posted.

Was their position preventing people accelerating down the slip road?

I guess not.
I doubt they were blocking people getting down the slip road & on, he doesn't like the fact they were stopped there.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 26th February 20:34

[Chim]

vonhosen said:

Eg All motorway regs


Regulation 16 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 provides for exemptions to and the relaxation of these Regulations.

16(1) Nothing in the foregoing provisions of these Regulations shall preclude any person from using a motorway otherwise than in accordance with the provisions in any of the following circumstances, that is to say -

(d) where he does so in the exercise of his duty as a constable a traffic officer when in uniform, as a member of the National Crime Agency for the purposes of that Agency, or as a member of an ambulance service or as an employee of of a fire and rescue authority employed for the purposes of that authority;

Thanks for this, its not very clear though, don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at speed traps here, what I am questioning is the safety element. Blocking and a full lane of the slip road and parking at a diagonal on it is not a particularly clever thing to do, to the extent that the law precludes any type of stopping on a slip way whatever due to the dangers involved. I would therefore question the exemption clause above being used in this circumstance.

Would make for an interesting challenge I would imagine. I am quite sure that there is provision somewhere that states that the police must execute their duties in a safe a secure manner. This to me is neither safe or secure

[vonhosen]

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Eg All motorway regs


Regulation 16 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 provides for exemptions to and the relaxation of these Regulations.

16(1) Nothing in the foregoing provisions of these Regulations shall preclude any person from using a motorway otherwise than in accordance with the provisions in any of the following circumstances, that is to say -

(d) where he does so in the exercise of his duty as a constable a traffic officer when in uniform, as a member of the National Crime Agency for the purposes of that Agency, or as a member of an ambulance service or as an employee of of a fire and rescue authority employed for the purposes of that authority;

Thanks for this, its not very clear though, don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at speed traps here, what I am questioning is the safety element. Blocking and a full lane of the slip road and parking at a diagonal on it is not a particularly clever thing to do, to the extent that the law precludes any type of stopping on a slip way whatever due to the dangers involved. I would therefore question the exemption clause above being used in this circumstance.

Would make for an interesting challenge I would imagine. I am quite sure that there is provision somewhere that states that the police must execute their duties in a safe a secure manner. This to me is neither safe or secure

What are you going to challenge & what legislation are you going to use to challenge it?

Reg 16, for instance, is very clear in relation to Motorway Regs.

Have you got a google maps link showing where they were?

[Chim]

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Eg All motorway regs


Regulation 16 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 provides for exemptions to and the relaxation of these Regulations.

16(1) Nothing in the foregoing provisions of these Regulations shall preclude any person from using a motorway otherwise than in accordance with the provisions in any of the following circumstances, that is to say -

(d) where he does so in the exercise of his duty as a constable a traffic officer when in uniform, as a member of the National Crime Agency for the purposes of that Agency, or as a member of an ambulance service or as an employee of of a fire and rescue authority employed for the purposes of that authority;

Thanks for this, its not very clear though, don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at speed traps here, what I am questioning is the safety element. Blocking and a full lane of the slip road and parking at a diagonal on it is not a particularly clever thing to do, to the extent that the law precludes any type of stopping on a slip way whatever due to the dangers involved. I would therefore question the exemption clause above being used in this circumstance.

Would make for an interesting challenge I would imagine. I am quite sure that there is provision somewhere that states that the police must execute their duties in a safe a secure manner. This to me is neither safe or secure

What are you going to challenge & what legislation are you going to use to challenge it?

Reg 16, for instance, is very clear in relation to Motorway Regs.

Any good lawyer worth his salt could challenge this one, the police are causing a danger to the public in the exercise of their duty when that same duty could be carried out in a far safer manner without breaching existing laws for the use of the highways

[vonhosen]

Chim said:

Any good lawyer worth his salt could challenge this one, the police are causing a danger to the public in the exercise of their duty when that same duty could be carried out in a far safer manner without breaching existing laws for the use of the highways

What are you suggesting the good lawyer is going to challenge?
A speeding conviction gained from being parked there?

[Chim]

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Eg All motorway regs


Regulation 16 of the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 provides for exemptions to and the relaxation of these Regulations.

16(1) Nothing in the foregoing provisions of these Regulations shall preclude any person from using a motorway otherwise than in accordance with the provisions in any of the following circumstances, that is to say -

(d) where he does so in the exercise of his duty as a constable a traffic officer when in uniform, as a member of the National Crime Agency for the purposes of that Agency, or as a member of an ambulance service or as an employee of of a fire and rescue authority employed for the purposes of that authority;

Thanks for this, its not very clear though, don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at speed traps here, what I am questioning is the safety element. Blocking and a full lane of the slip road and parking at a diagonal on it is not a particularly clever thing to do, to the extent that the law precludes any type of stopping on a slip way whatever due to the dangers involved. I would therefore question the exemption clause above being used in this circumstance.

Would make for an interesting challenge I would imagine. I am quite sure that there is provision somewhere that states that the police must execute their duties in a safe a secure manner. This to me is neither safe or secure

What are you going to challenge & what legislation are you going to use to challenge it?

Reg 16, for instance, is very clear in relation to Motorway Regs.

Any good lawyer worth his salt could challenge this one, the police are causing a danger to the public in the exercise of their duty when that same duty could be carried out in a far safer manner without breaching existing laws for the use of the highways

What are you suggesting the good lawyer is going to challenge?
A speeding conviction gained from being parked there?

Yes, that is one challenge that could be brought, for a conviction to be upheld the evidence should be gathered in a legal way, if the placement of the vehicle is found to be illegal then the conviction would not stand. Would also be interesting if an accident did occur due to the parked police car on the slip road.

[vonhosen]

Chim said:

Yes, that is one challenge that could be brought, for a conviction to be upheld the evidence should be gathered in a legal way, if the placement of the vehicle is found to be illegal then the conviction would not stand. Would also be interesting if an accident did occur due to the parked police car on the slip road.

So what is the offence they have committed that is relevant to & affecting any speeding prosecution gained?
What offence is committed at all?

Have you got a google maps link of exactly where they were stopped?

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 26th February 20:49

[mph1977]

Chim said:

Yes, that is one challenge that could be brought, for a conviction to be upheld the evidence should be gathered in a legal way, if the placement of the vehicle is found to be illegal then the conviction would not stand. Would also be interesting if an accident did occur due to the parked police car on the slip road.

wibble wibble wibble

as has been pointed out there are exemptions from the law for the the emergency services and the TO service , evrgo their actions in this situation are not illegal / unlawful / not on their oath or any other such phrase.

[Cliftonite]

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

[vonhosen]

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

[Mopar440]

vonhosen said:

Mopar440 said:

Hey, give the OP a break! He's posted a very valid question and just received the usual PH bo||ocks from the usual suspects, including "of the trousers".

But someone please explain why a police car would be situated on a slip road on to a (presumably) NSL road, apparently trying to catch people speeding? Are the slip roads not designed for drivers to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to enter the NSL carriageway?

The situation re the law has been posted.

Was their position preventing people accelerating down the slip road?

I guess not.
I doubt they were blocking people getting down the slip road & on, he doesn't like the fact they were stopped there.

Mopar440 said:

please explain why a police car would be situated on a slip road on to a (presumably) NSL road, apparently trying to catch people speeding? Are the slip roads not designed for drivers to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to enter the NSL carriageway?

Answer the question, big fella.

[Chim]

mph1977 said:

Chim said:

Yes, that is one challenge that could be brought, for a conviction to be upheld the evidence should be gathered in a legal way, if the placement of the vehicle is found to be illegal then the conviction would not stand. Would also be interesting if an accident did occur due to the parked police car on the slip road.

wibble wibble wibble

as has been pointed out there are exemptions from the law for the the emergency services and the TO service , evrgo their actions in this situation are not illegal / unlawful / not on their oath or any other such phrase.

Please go play silly little boy elsewhere and come back when you grow up. There may be exemptions, these though have to follow within strict guidelines and can, and have, many many times been challenged. You are a bigger idiot than your opening little jibe places you as if you believe that we should just accept that exemptions can be applied to any action the police undertake.

[Chim]

vonhosen said:

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

I have already answered that, the law is quite clear and stopping on a slip road for any reason (other than accident or Breakdown) is strictly prohibited.

[vonhosen]

Mopar440 said:

vonhosen said:

Mopar440 said:

Hey, give the OP a break! He's posted a very valid question and just received the usual PH bo||ocks from the usual suspects, including "of the trousers".

But someone please explain why a police car would be situated on a slip road on to a (presumably) NSL road, apparently trying to catch people speeding? Are the slip roads not designed for drivers to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to enter the NSL carriageway?

The situation re the law has been posted.

Was their position preventing people accelerating down the slip road?

I guess not.
I doubt they were blocking people getting down the slip road & on, he doesn't like the fact they were stopped there.

Mopar440 said:

please explain why a police car would be situated on a slip road on to a (presumably) NSL road, apparently trying to catch people speeding? Are the slip roads not designed for drivers to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to enter the NSL carriageway?

Answer the question, big fella.

What's stopping them gaining evidence for speeding convictions from there?
is the OP 100% sure that's what they were doing?
Yes slip roads are for cars to accelerate up to an appropriate speed to join the live carriageway.
Were people prevented from doing so in this case?
Did anybody not manage to get down the slip road & join the carriageway?

[vonhosen]

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

I have already answered that, the law is quite clear and stopping on a slip road for any reason (other than accident or Breakdown) is strictly prohibited.

Show us the legislation you are using for that statement.
You were earlier quoting what google threw up in relation to Motorways (then said this was a bypass not a motorway) & I showed you that Police are exempt from Motorway Regs.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 26th February 20:56

[mph1977]

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

I have already answered that, the law is quite clear and stopping on a slip road for any reason (other than accident or Breakdown) is strictly prohibited.

Show us the legislation you are using for that statement.

as can be seen from chim's response when i called him on this, he really hasn't got the slightest clue aobut exemptions ...

unfortunately it seems to be an up and coming sport to challenge exemptions on basis other than the ordinary 'civilian' road user is discouraged or prohibited from doing it .

[glasgowrob]

seems to be a regular sight on the M8 up here in Jockland,

traffic cars parked diagonally on the hard shoulder not only on the slips but on the actual motorway itself.

[Chim]

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

I have already answered that, the law is quite clear and stopping on a slip road for any reason (other than accident or Breakdown) is strictly prohibited.

Show us the legislation you are using for that statement.
You were earlier quoting what google threw up in relation to Motorways (then said this was a bypass not a motorway) & I showed you that Police are exempt from Motorway Regs.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 26th February 20:56

Christ on a bike, stop being so anal. I have already quoted the relevant section. Here it is again from Motorways Direct site this time.

You MUST NOT stop on the carriageway, hard shoulder, slip road, central reservation or verge except in an emergency, or when told to do so by the police, an emergency sign or by flashing red light signals.

Do not stop on the hard shoulder to either make or receive mobile phone calls.

Law MTR regs 5, 8 & 10

As to your "generic" and very unspecific piece of the legislation regards exemption, it is for the court to decide whether the exemption applies in specific circumstances. I would say in this instance the exemption would not apply as there are perfectly legal areas where the police can carry out this particular duty

[agtlaw]

Chim said:

Yes, that is one challenge that could be brought, for a conviction to be upheld the evidence should be gathered in a legal way, if the placement of the vehicle is found to be illegal then the conviction would not stand. Would also be interesting if an accident did occur due to the parked police car on the slip road.

Wrong.

Is half term over?

[vonhosen]

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Chim said:

vonhosen said:

Cliftonite said:

vonhosen said:

What do you think the offence he is committing is?

Being a knob?

Obstruction?

What would be the offence if I placed my car there?

Is there an unnecessary obstruction?
Who couldn't get down the slip road?
What offence would have been committed by you being stopped there?

I have already answered that, the law is quite clear and stopping on a slip road for any reason (other than accident or Breakdown) is strictly prohibited.

Show us the legislation you are using for that statement.
You were earlier quoting what google threw up in relation to Motorways (then said this was a bypass not a motorway) & I showed you that Police are exempt from Motorway Regs.

Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 26th February 20:56

Christ on a bike, stop being so anal. I have already quoted the relevant section. Here it is again from Motorways Direct site this time.

You MUST NOT stop on the carriageway, hard shoulder, slip road, central reservation or verge except in an emergency, or when told to do so by the police, an emergency sign or by flashing red light signals.

Do not stop on the hard shoulder to either make or receive mobile phone calls.

Law MTR regs 5, 8 & 10

As to your "generic" and very unspecific piece of the legislation regards exemption, it is for the court to decide whether the exemption applies in specific circumstances. I would say in this instance the exemption would not apply as there are perfectly legal areas where the police can carry out this particular duty

Reg 16 exempts Police from regs 5, 8 & 10.
The law is clear, if it's for a Police duty then they are exempt under Reg 16.
They can stop on the hard shoulder etc.
Whether there is another option is irrelevant for that.

Was this even a motorway?
I'll ask again, have you got a google maps link to show exactly where they were?