Legality of slip road speed traps
Discussion
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
tapereel said:
From my experience of stopping in a police car on a slip road to a dual-carrageway or motorway, a traffic officer won't do it if there is a danger to him or the public. Perhaps there are traffic officers that disragard the risk; I am yet to meet one.
They'll do a dynamic risk assessment with regard to the full circumstances.Can this activity be undertaken easily without the need for Risk. Answer, yes it can.
It may still be the best local option if it can be done acceptably safely.
Safety over technical infringement. There is only one answer to this.
REALIST123 said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
tapereel said:
From my experience of stopping in a police car on a slip road to a dual-carrageway or motorway, a traffic officer won't do it if there is a danger to him or the public. Perhaps there are traffic officers that disragard the risk; I am yet to meet one.
They'll do a dynamic risk assessment with regard to the full circumstances.Can this activity be undertaken easily without the need for Risk. Answer, yes it can.
It may still be the best local option if it can be done acceptably safely.
Safety over technical infringement. There is only one answer to this.
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.vonhosen said:
I'm talking about length of site lines to the parked vehicle meaning it would be in view for such a length of time that it would not be a problem for vehicles travelling towards it at speeds in excess of 30mph to see & negotiate it in the absence of other hazards.
Only if you know there are no other hazards. If the van is concealing the presence of a pedestrian about to cross the road then 30mph is probably too fast.
vonhosen said:
The poorer lateral (relative to longitudinal) sight lines there & the proximity of all the aforementioned hazards (village, cemetery, houses, school etc) justify the 30mph limit.
You drive according to conditions, dictated partly by lines of sight.If you can't stop comfortably within the distance you can see to be clear then you slow down. If things can encroach into your path very quickly then you slow down, and the quicker things can happen the more you need to slow down. And the shorter the lateral sight lines are, the quicker things can happen.
But the lateral sight lines only become of significance where there are houses, parked cars, children running around etc, and that's 100 metres ahead from where the van is. You can easily slow down from above 40mph to walking pace within that distance if you have to.
Phatboy317 said:
vonhosen said:
I'm talking about length of site lines to the parked vehicle meaning it would be in view for such a length of time that it would not be a problem for vehicles travelling towards it at speeds in excess of 30mph to see & negotiate it in the absence of other hazards.
Only if you know there are no other hazards. If the van is concealing the presence of a pedestrian about to cross the road then 30mph is probably too fast.
vonhosen said:
The poorer lateral (relative to longitudinal) sight lines there & the proximity of all the aforementioned hazards (village, cemetery, houses, school etc) justify the 30mph limit.
You drive according to conditions, dictated partly by lines of sight.If you can't stop comfortably within the distance you can see to be clear then you slow down. If things can encroach into your path very quickly then you slow down, and the quicker things can happen the more you need to slow down. And the shorter the lateral sight lines are, the quicker things can happen.
But the lateral sight lines only become of significance where there are houses, parked cars, children running around etc, and that's 100 metres ahead from where the van is. You can easily slow down from above 40mph to walking pace within that distance if you have to.
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.You doing 71 in a 70 is illegal, but that doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
You stopping on the hard shoulder to phone home & tell your family you'll be late for dinner is illegal, it doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
The full circumstances determine whether something is acceptably safe or not in the circumstances, not it being outlawed for those without exemptions.
Ergo the fact a Police car is stopped on a slip road doesn't mean it's dangerous. it depends on the full circumstances.
Chim said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Chim said:
it has been accepted to be totally unacceptable.
Accepted by whom? (Genuine question)Motorway regs apply to all motorways, there are no such regs for all A grade roads.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 1st March 19:43
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.You doing 71 in a 70 is illegal, but that doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
You stopping on the hard shoulder to phone home & tell your family you'll be late for dinner is illegal, it doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
The full circumstances determine with something is acceptably safe, not it being outlawed for those without exemptions.
Back to the risk, is does not equate in any way imaginable.
vonhosen said:
The camera isn't measuring the speed of vehicles where it's parked, it's measuring them a distance from it, where there are such hazards.
I'd be inclined to concede that point, except that the van is a distance past the end of the end of the built-up area, which means that it's likely catching people who speed up a bit as they reach the end of the built-up area, and, even worse, those who do tear around at inappropriately high speeds are only stopped after they've driven the entire length of the built-up area.If the van was positioned in the middle of the built-up area then I'd likely be more accepting of it.
Edited by Phatboy317 on Sunday 1st March 19:48
Mk3Spitfire said:
Chim said:
Motorway regs, although not sure on bypasses but I would imagine the same applies.
Could you post a link to this literature?Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.You doing 71 in a 70 is illegal, but that doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
You stopping on the hard shoulder to phone home & tell your family you'll be late for dinner is illegal, it doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
The full circumstances determine with something is acceptably safe, not it being outlawed for those without exemptions.
Back to the risk, is does not equate in any way imaginable.
Of course they have some control over the level of risk by looking at all the circumstances & making a choice with due regard to all of them.
That's using judgement.
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Chim said:
it has been accepted to be totally unacceptable.
Accepted by whom? (Genuine question)Motorway regs apply to all motorways, there are no such regs for all A grade roads.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 1st March 19:43
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Chim said:
it has been accepted to be totally unacceptable.
Accepted by whom? (Genuine question)Motorway regs apply to all motorways, there are no such regs for all A grade roads.
The point remains that there are no such regs on all A grade roads. You need signage in order to enforce each.
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
But parking on slips has already been deemed as totally unacceptable, as has excessive speeding I will grant you, when you have a choice though and this choice in only hindered by a slight reduction in pursuit time there can only be one answer, the safest alternative here is to take the slight hit on pursuit time
Parking on slips roads has not been deemed to be totally unacceptable (i.e. in all circumstances). It depends on the circumstances.You doing 71 in a 70 is illegal, but that doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
You stopping on the hard shoulder to phone home & tell your family you'll be late for dinner is illegal, it doesn't mean it's unacceptably safe when you do.
The full circumstances determine with something is acceptably safe, not it being outlawed for those without exemptions.
Back to the risk, is does not equate in any way imaginable.
Of course they have some control over the level of risk by looking at all the circumstances & making a choice with due regard to all of them.
That's using judgement.
Chim said:
If you read back to earlier posts, around page three I think, the regs are already quoted. Need to skip over the silly stuff prior to getting into the grown up discussion that is taking place and being enjoyed at the moment though
Ta. The reams of multi quotes was a bit much to take in. What are ACPO's feelings on the subject?vonhosen said:
Chim said:
vonhosen said:
Chim said:
Mk3Spitfire said:
Chim said:
it has been accepted to be totally unacceptable.
Accepted by whom? (Genuine question)Motorway regs apply to all motorways, there are no such regs for all A grade roads.
The point remains that there are no such regs on all A grade roads. You need signage in order to enforce each.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.607068,-4.64735,...
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