Didn't Realise Specs Cameras On Separate Roads Are Linked!
Discussion
Medic-one said:
Are you sure he isn't just caught on two camera's on the A127 and reading his NIP letter wrong ?
or maybe he read it right, but wasn't very good at explaining it to his friend, or his friend wasn't very good at understanding, or that friend understood him, but wasn't very good at explaining it to the op, or he explained it right, but the op wasn't very good at understanding, or maybe the the op understood it right but isn't very good at explaining it to us (unlikely he drew a map). That is all before we even get on to the possibility that someone involve could have embellished the truth.This is why the story is pointless, as there is zero chance of ever getting to the bottom of it
LoonR1 said:
Quick let's have another load of b
ks one.
A bloke down the road knows someone who had a friend whose brother was married to a girl whose Dad bought a dog off a fella who bumped into someone who read in a paper last year that someone once got a speeding fine and the French version of points put on his UK licence.
Here's the rub though. In France they take points off you and ban you when you get to zero, whereas ours add up. So this guy had 6 points on his UK licence but because he got caught in France they take three points off your licence for speeding, so he's now only got 3 points on his UK licence.
How good is that.
Incredible. You couldn't make it up.ks one. A bloke down the road knows someone who had a friend whose brother was married to a girl whose Dad bought a dog off a fella who bumped into someone who read in a paper last year that someone once got a speeding fine and the French version of points put on his UK licence.
Here's the rub though. In France they take points off you and ban you when you get to zero, whereas ours add up. So this guy had 6 points on his UK licence but because he got caught in France they take three points off your licence for speeding, so he's now only got 3 points on his UK licence.
How good is that.
FurtiveFreddy said:
OK, well as has been said already, the SPECS3 system is capable of being used in this way i.e. across a wide area and not just on the same stretch of road.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that when the NSL applies (i.e. there isn't a variable or temporary speed limit in place) the automated systems such as SPECS and HADECS are configured to trigger at a pretty high threshold, so I would hazard a guess the guy averaged somewhere around 100mph to get that NIP.
As you say, easily possible between those two cameras if the conditions were good.
With SPECS3, ANY two cameras within a very wide area (20km+) can be the effective 'start' and 'end' points of the average speed calculation, so the more they spring up the more reports like this we'll start seeing.
There are 2 junctions - even with light traffic and green lights I suggest it would be hard to average 100 mph - easy to do 100+ on some stretches, yes, but average 100+ ?Anecdotal evidence suggests that when the NSL applies (i.e. there isn't a variable or temporary speed limit in place) the automated systems such as SPECS and HADECS are configured to trigger at a pretty high threshold, so I would hazard a guess the guy averaged somewhere around 100mph to get that NIP.
As you say, easily possible between those two cameras if the conditions were good.
With SPECS3, ANY two cameras within a very wide area (20km+) can be the effective 'start' and 'end' points of the average speed calculation, so the more they spring up the more reports like this we'll start seeing.
V8forweekends said:
There are 2 junctions - even with light traffic and green lights I suggest it would be hard to average 100 mph - easy to do 100+ on some stretches, yes, but average 100+ ?
Because we can't verify the facts, we are all making assumptions, but the question the OP raised was whether it is possible to be measured between two SPECS cameras on different stretches of road and the answer to that is definitely yes.The secondary question is what maximum average speed a hot hatch could achieve between the two points the OP marked on the map and I am suggesting it would be possible to average over 100 in the right conditions. It's two long stretches of fast DC with a couple of big roundabouts in the way. If you were doing 115+ on the straight bits and slowed to 40-50 for the roundabouts, you could average over 100.
Of course, we can't prove anything, but then this is the Internet, isn't it?
MKnight702 said:
Being able to hit 70 and being able to average 70 are completely different.
I know. I was being silly, hence the smiley.ging84 said:
stories about Op's work mates are rarely true and accurate, So when it's an Op's work mate's friend's story
why are we even bothering to respond?
And yet here you are....why are we even bothering to respond?
I have no reason to disbelieve my workmate (who I know well, not just an acquaintance). I'm not fussed if you believe me or not. Take it or leave it.
Grey Ghost said:
However, to have this unmonitored stretch of dual carriageway between two completely separate groups of average speed cameras surely cannot lead to a conviction ?
According to this website, that's exactly what they're meant to do: http://www.speedcheck.co.uk/specs3.htmging84 said:
Medic-one said:
Are you sure he isn't just caught on two camera's on the A127 and reading his NIP letter wrong ?
or maybe he read it right, but wasn't very good at explaining it to his friend, or his friend wasn't very good at understanding, or that friend understood him, but wasn't very good at explaining it to the op, or he explained it right, but the op wasn't very good at understanding, or maybe the the op understood it right but isn't very good at explaining it to us (unlikely he drew a map). That is all before we even get on to the possibility that someone involve could have embellished the truth.This is why the story is pointless, as there is zero chance of ever getting to the bottom of it
Everyone who lives in this area knows about the 'cheat' where if you are coming off the A127 at that junction it is possible to accelerate over the limit as you go past that camera and not get caught as you don't go past another one. (At least until you hit the camera on the A130 and you've been going far too fast between the two!)
FurtiveFreddy said:
V8forweekends said:
There are 2 junctions - even with light traffic and green lights I suggest it would be hard to average 100 mph - easy to do 100+ on some stretches, yes, but average 100+ ?
Because we can't verify the facts, we are all making assumptions, but the question the OP raised was whether it is possible to be measured between two SPECS cameras on different stretches of road and the answer to that is definitely yes.The secondary question is what maximum average speed a hot hatch could achieve between the two points the OP marked on the map and I am suggesting it would be possible to average over 100 in the right conditions. It's two long stretches of fast DC with a couple of big roundabouts in the way. If you were doing 115+ on the straight bits and slowed to 40-50 for the roundabouts, you could average over 100.
Of course, we can't prove anything, but then this is the Internet, isn't it?
trashbat said:
Does anyone know what they did about the Cat and Fiddle (SPECS-enforced rural A-road, 50mph) and the NSL shortcuts in the end?
Yep. They take your speed at each camera, add it up and divide by two. So if you want to cane it along there, just trundle past the camera and you're golden. Ask me how I know, go on.Sideways Tim said:
trashbat said:
Does anyone know what they did about the Cat and Fiddle (SPECS-enforced rural A-road, 50mph) and the NSL shortcuts in the end?
Yep. They take your speed at each camera, add it up and divide by two. So if you want to cane it along there, just trundle past the camera and you're golden. Ask me how I know, go on.
trashbat said:
o on
Because apparently I did an average speed of 58mph along there. I reckon I could win a Grand Prix in my Volvo with that level of driving prowess.Average isn't always average - it's all that mean, median, er other one stuff that did me in. That and thinking that as there's no street lights up there, they're unlikely to have gone to the bother of running cables just for the cameras
FurtiveFreddy said:
V8forweekends said:
There are 2 junctions - even with light traffic and green lights I suggest it would be hard to average 100 mph - easy to do 100+ on some stretches, yes, but average 100+ ?
The secondary question is what maximum average speed a hot hatch could achieve between the two points the OP marked on the map and I am suggesting it would be possible to average over 100 in the right conditions. It's two long stretches of fast DC with a couple of big roundabouts in the way. If you were doing 115+ on the straight bits and slowed to 40-50 for the roundabouts, you could average over 100. i don't know if you know the roads, but i certainly would not try and do much over 30 round it if that, and i would suspect i would be on the ragged edge going much faster. unless you have a serious set-up suspension wise.
your speeds you suggested would also explain why he would get a ticket with so many speed changes, 50, 30, 70, 30, 50 between the cameras.
jesta1865 said:
you are probably right, but unless this was about 4am i doubt there was that little traffic that he would get away with driving the way he would have to. the roads are quite heavily used.
i don't know if you know the roads, but i certainly would not try and do much over 30 round it if that, and i would suspect i would be on the ragged edge going much faster. unless you have a serious set-up suspension wise.
your speeds you suggested would also explain why he would get a ticket with so many speed changes, 50, 30, 70, 30, 50 between the cameras.
Well we don't know what time it was but maybe early on a Sunday morning there would be an opportunity to get above 30 on those roads?i don't know if you know the roads, but i certainly would not try and do much over 30 round it if that, and i would suspect i would be on the ragged edge going much faster. unless you have a serious set-up suspension wise.
your speeds you suggested would also explain why he would get a ticket with so many speed changes, 50, 30, 70, 30, 50 between the cameras.
I don't see how it would be on a ragged edge personally and the limits I see on Google Maps are mainly NSL with a couple of shortish stretches of 50mph. Taking that into account, maybe the trigger speed for a NIP was set to something like 25mph above the average maximum legal speed between the two cameras?
speedcheck said:
SPECS3 allows a network of cameras to measure the average speed of vehicles between camera locations, covering simple sections of road or area based networks. This delivers a far more flexible solution than earlier generations of SPECS, allowing distributed cameras to communicate with each other. Due to simplified installation and advances in technology, SPECS3 solutions are now considerably more cost effective, presenting road safety professionals and highway designers a powerful new tool that can be rapidly configured and installed.
If camera's clocks can be synchronised with sufficient accuracy to determine time between cameras, the obvious issue is the calculation of the average speed between cameras on a net. Does anyone know how the average values are calculated? Presumably an accurate distance measure of each section subject to a limit giving a total time to cover the section. I suppose instantaneous changes between speeds and then a healthy margin on top. But it must be human entry into a spreadsheet and then a database. Must be scope for mistakes there? Looking at a net with 10 entry / exit points and the potential routes between there must be only limited places where their deployment could be reliable.speedking31 said:
f camera's clocks can be synchronised with sufficient accuracy to determine time between cameras, the obvious issue is the calculation of the average speed between cameras on a net. Does anyone know how the average values are calculated? Presumably an accurate distance measure of each section subject to a limit giving a total time to cover the section. I suppose instantaneous changes between speeds and then a healthy margin on top. But it must be human entry into a spreadsheet and then a database. Must be scope for mistakes there? Looking at a net with 10 entry / exit points and the potential routes between there must be only limited places where their deployment could be reliable.
It needn't involve humans entering data. The exact time is easily available through GPS, and this will give millisecond level accuracy or better. A network with 10 entry and exit points may sound complicated, but simple graph theory provides the means to determine a minimum possible time through such a network given that the lengths of the roads and their speed limits are known. Once the minimum time has been established, anyone passing between an entry and exit faster must have travelled at an average speed greater than permitted.Sideways Tim said:
Because apparently I did an average speed of 58mph along there. I reckon I could win a Grand Prix in my Volvo with that level of driving prowess.
Average isn't always average - it's all that mean, median, er other one stuff that did me in. That and thinking that as there's no street lights up there, they're unlikely to have gone to the bother of running cables just for the cameras
The first bit makes sense, but they don't need to be directly connected to each other, and probably are each connected to something (i.e. the internet) otherwise someone would have to come along and connect to them every week or so (in order to fit the prosecution window).Average isn't always average - it's all that mean, median, er other one stuff that did me in. That and thinking that as there's no street lights up there, they're unlikely to have gone to the bother of running cables just for the cameras
jesta1865 said:
you are probably right, but unless this was about 4am i doubt there was that little traffic that he would get away with driving the way he would have to. the roads are quite heavily used
According to my workmate it was around 2am. What surprised me almost as much as the guy getting a ticket was the fact he had green lights all the way round the roundabouts! I have never managed to get all greens round there. But then again I've never driven as fast as that between the junctions, so they've always turned to red by the time I've got there If the road speed limits differ, ie 50, 60 and 70, what offence are the NIP' s for exceeding which sped limit and on which road. You could have a various roads NIP if the speed limits were the same, however if the limits change then you would have committed more than one offence.......if that makes sense
Grey Ghost said:
However, to have this unmonitored stretch of dual carriageway between two completely separate groups of average speed cameras surely cannot lead to a conviction ?
According to this website, that's exactly what they're meant to do: http://www.speedcheck.co.uk/specs3.htmGuess a bit more attention is now needed in our neck of the woods then
what is missing from this thread is the accused speed, the exact location of the speed camera made it through the grape vine, yet some how the speed didn't.
I have never ever heard of an NIP without a speed on it, I would be surprised if one would even be valid.
I'm sure it arrived with a post mark exactly 15 days after the offence and was for doing 75mph in a national speed limit in a car derived van and no speed awareness course was offered but those details have yet to be made up yet
I have never ever heard of an NIP without a speed on it, I would be surprised if one would even be valid.
I'm sure it arrived with a post mark exactly 15 days after the offence and was for doing 75mph in a national speed limit in a car derived van and no speed awareness course was offered but those details have yet to be made up yet
As implied by several posters, if the limits vary within the monitored zone, as implied by speedcheck's website, then the SCP won't know which limit you have exceeded but just that your time was below the minimum legal time. The upside is that it is virtually impossible for you to check whether the ticket is valid 
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