'No less than' 76 in a 50
Discussion
I was travelling along the M8 heading towards JCT 17 (50 mph zone) at approx 2.30am last week. As i took the cut off and stopped at traffic lights a traffic car pulled up behind me and put the lights on. I was asked if i knew why i’d been stopped to which I replied no and was informed it was for speeding. Fair enough, I possibly was, what speed? ‘No less than 76mph’ was the reply.
Few points to note here –
There was 100% no car tailing me within visibility at the point where he claims i was doing that speed.
I asked what junction he came on at and was informed JCT 15, for him to get up to speed from that junction to then record a constant speed isn't possible.
Is writing ‘at a speed no less than 76mph’ common practice? It hardly fills me with confidence that they know what I was doing at all. He may have been doing 76mph to catch up perhaps.
We then went through a rather irritating rigmarole of him questioning who’s car it was, why I was out at this time in the morning, what did i work as to afford a car like that, etc, etc. He then asked for ID which i didn’t have (this wasn’t a planned journey, i was out in my gym stuff so had no wallet, etc), I was then quizzed as to how he could be sure I am who I say I am and if we could not establish my identity we may have to go down the station – this did annoy me as there is no way I could do that nor for that matter do we legally have to carry ID cards about...yet!
After about 15 mins, PNC and person check he eventually decided all was well, gave me an FPN and sent me on my way.
I’m not moaning about the FPN, if i was speeding fair enough, the way it was handled however was out of order IMO.
Has anyone received a speeding ticket with ‘no less than’ before?
Few points to note here –
There was 100% no car tailing me within visibility at the point where he claims i was doing that speed.
I asked what junction he came on at and was informed JCT 15, for him to get up to speed from that junction to then record a constant speed isn't possible.
Is writing ‘at a speed no less than 76mph’ common practice? It hardly fills me with confidence that they know what I was doing at all. He may have been doing 76mph to catch up perhaps.
We then went through a rather irritating rigmarole of him questioning who’s car it was, why I was out at this time in the morning, what did i work as to afford a car like that, etc, etc. He then asked for ID which i didn’t have (this wasn’t a planned journey, i was out in my gym stuff so had no wallet, etc), I was then quizzed as to how he could be sure I am who I say I am and if we could not establish my identity we may have to go down the station – this did annoy me as there is no way I could do that nor for that matter do we legally have to carry ID cards about...yet!
After about 15 mins, PNC and person check he eventually decided all was well, gave me an FPN and sent me on my way.
I’m not moaning about the FPN, if i was speeding fair enough, the way it was handled however was out of order IMO.
Has anyone received a speeding ticket with ‘no less than’ before?
Speak to agtlaw on here, he's a motoring specialist solicitor.
He's very good.
Many moons ago I helped a PHer fight a charge like this. As it transpired, and when the statement came through, there was no way they could have done a follow check, he pled not guilty, defended himself and won. I'm not a pro though, and I suggest you get professional advice!
What can happen is a gamble for the police officer. I may get flamed for this, but I have been in the same situation being in a nice car.
No evidence to actually convict you with, but have a quick chase, pull him over, see if he admits, if he doesn't there's a 99% chance he'll accept the FPN which will make formally writing down what the evidence is unnecessary.
The problem arises when that evidence is actually tested. If you want to fight it though, although I've never used him, I've read a lot of his posts on here, agtlaw is your man.
He's very good.
Many moons ago I helped a PHer fight a charge like this. As it transpired, and when the statement came through, there was no way they could have done a follow check, he pled not guilty, defended himself and won. I'm not a pro though, and I suggest you get professional advice!
What can happen is a gamble for the police officer. I may get flamed for this, but I have been in the same situation being in a nice car.
No evidence to actually convict you with, but have a quick chase, pull him over, see if he admits, if he doesn't there's a 99% chance he'll accept the FPN which will make formally writing down what the evidence is unnecessary.
The problem arises when that evidence is actually tested. If you want to fight it though, although I've never used him, I've read a lot of his posts on here, agtlaw is your man.
JustinP1 said:
Speak to agtlaw on here, he's a motoring specialist solicitor.
He's very good.
Many moons ago I helped a PHer fight a charge like this. As it transpired, and when the statement came through, there was no way they could have done a follow check, he pled not guilty, defended himself and won. I'm not a pro though, and I suggest you get professional advice!
What can happen is a gamble for the police officer. I may get flamed for this, but I have been in the same situation being in a nice car.
No evidence to actually convict you with, but have a quick chase, pull him over, see if he admits, if he doesn't there's a 99% chance he'll accept the FPN which will make formally writing down what the evidence is unnecessary.
The problem arises when that evidence is actually tested. If you want to fight it though, although I've never used him, I've read a lot of his posts on here, agtlaw is your man.
Interesting, thanks for this. I was more irritated about the full ID and afforability questions than the speeding FPN to be honest. He's very good.
Many moons ago I helped a PHer fight a charge like this. As it transpired, and when the statement came through, there was no way they could have done a follow check, he pled not guilty, defended himself and won. I'm not a pro though, and I suggest you get professional advice!
What can happen is a gamble for the police officer. I may get flamed for this, but I have been in the same situation being in a nice car.
No evidence to actually convict you with, but have a quick chase, pull him over, see if he admits, if he doesn't there's a 99% chance he'll accept the FPN which will make formally writing down what the evidence is unnecessary.
The problem arises when that evidence is actually tested. If you want to fight it though, although I've never used him, I've read a lot of his posts on here, agtlaw is your man.
Do i believe i was going over 50? Possibly, but not by much. Do i believe i was going more than 76mph? 100% no.
R8Steve said:
We then went through a rather irritating rigmarole of him questioning who’s car it was, why I was out at this time in the morning, what did i work as to afford a car like that, etc, etc. He then asked for ID which i didn’t have (this wasn’t a planned journey, i was out in my gym stuff so had no wallet, etc), I was then quizzed as to how he could be sure I am who I say I am and if we could not establish my identity we may have to go down the station – this did annoy me as there is no way I could do that nor for that matter do we legally have to carry ID cards about...yet!
I've had this several times. But it helps the officer ascertain if you've nicked it. Not been asked my job but certainly why I am out at 2am and so on..Jasandjules said:
R8Steve said:
We then went through a rather irritating rigmarole of him questioning who’s car it was, why I was out at this time in the morning, what did i work as to afford a car like that, etc, etc. He then asked for ID which i didn’t have (this wasn’t a planned journey, i was out in my gym stuff so had no wallet, etc), I was then quizzed as to how he could be sure I am who I say I am and if we could not establish my identity we may have to go down the station – this did annoy me as there is no way I could do that nor for that matter do we legally have to carry ID cards about...yet!
I've had this several times. But it helps the officer ascertain if you've nicked it. Not been asked my job but certainly why I am out at 2am and so on..R8Steve said:
Interesting, thanks for this. I was more irritated about the full ID and afforability questions than the speeding FPN to be honest.
The questions themselves don't seem that unreasonable. I certainly don't want to live in a world where we're forced to carry ID at all times and happily, we don't live in that world (at least we don't in our part of the world). So "No" is a perfectly reasonable answer to the question, "Have you got some ID on you?". But that's not the same as saying that when the police suspect someone of committing an offence, the suspect should be allowed to go free if they happen not to have any ID on them. Of course the police are going to want to establish whether you are who you say you are.And if you were driving a nice car, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to wonder whether it was yours. People nick nice cars, and when they do, they sometimes drive them fast. So I'm not surprised if they wanted to establish that you hadn't stolen it.
I fully accept that the manner in which such questions are asked could be irritating.
SK425 said:
R8Steve said:
Interesting, thanks for this. I was more irritated about the full ID and afforability questions than the speeding FPN to be honest.
The questions themselves don't seem that unreasonable. I certainly don't want to live in a world where we're forced to carry ID at all times and happily, we don't live in that world (at least we don't in our part of the world). So "No" is a perfectly reasonable answer to the question, "Have you got some ID on you?". But that's not the same as saying that when the police suspect someone of committing an offence, the suspect should be allowed to go free if they happen not to have any ID on them. Of course the police are going to want to establish whether you are who you say you are.And if you were driving a nice car, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to wonder whether it was yours. People nick nice cars, and when they do, they sometimes drive them fast. So I'm not surprised they wanted to establish that you hadn't stolen it.
I fully accept that the manner in which such questions are asked could be irritating.
R8Steve said:
I often wonder how a lot of people afford things that they have...i certainly don't question them as to how they can though, it's none of my business neither should it be any of a police officers.
But the police officer isn't just wondering with idle curiosity like you would - they have a job to do. I'm in no position to comment on the individual officer who spoke to you as I wasn't there, but in principle it's not a question I would be that surprised to be asked if, from the police officer's point of view, I had presented them with circumstances consistent with a toerag nicking a nice car, even if the circumstances are also consistent with other explanations, and even though I know I'm not a toerag and I didn't nick it.SK425 said:
R8Steve said:
I often wonder how a lot of people afford things that they have...i certainly don't question them as to how they can though, it's none of my business neither should it be any of a police officers.
But the police officer isn't just wondering with idle curiosity like you would - they have a job to do. I'm in no position to comment on the individual officer who spoke to you as I wasn't there, but in principle it's not a question I would be that surprised to be asked if, from the police officer's point of view, I had presented them with circumstances consistent with a toerag nicking a nice car, even if the circumstances are also consistent with other explanations, and even though I know I'm not a toerag and I didn't nick it.When I was younger I was (inexplicably) included on my Dad's trade policy on his shiny new car, I even had a letter from the company stating this was the case.
Once I got pulled at around 2am coming back from a friends house and asked to sit in the back of their car and got asked very similar questions. They then asked me what the numberplate was on the car I was driving, which I couldn't understand at the time, but subsequently realised it was a fairly low impact but likely high performance way of testing whether I had nicked it.
Another time I was running home from another mates house at around 1am. A Police car pulled alongside me and kept pace until I stopped whereupon I was asked numerous questions about where I had been, where I was going, why I was running, etc. Again you could take a cynical "f*** da Police" attitude and wax lyrical about how its an affront to privacy and freedom and other s
t like that, but in reality - again - it was proactive policing. They suspected me of possibly going equipped to commit a burglary or similar crime, and once they had established that I wasn't that was the end of it.
As regards your experience speeding aside I don't think it's particularly offensive to be asked questions that seek to ascertain whether you've stolen the car or not. You can take umbrage at that if you like but I'd much rather they be proactive in this way, and potentially catch stolen vehicles that the owner has not realised had been taken yet, even if it causes mild offence.
As an aside I find it very hard to understand (I'm taking the OP account as read) people not having any kind of ID on them whatsoever. When I go to the gym I still have my wallet somewhere, or at least bank card in case of emergency or whatever.
Once I got pulled at around 2am coming back from a friends house and asked to sit in the back of their car and got asked very similar questions. They then asked me what the numberplate was on the car I was driving, which I couldn't understand at the time, but subsequently realised it was a fairly low impact but likely high performance way of testing whether I had nicked it.
Another time I was running home from another mates house at around 1am. A Police car pulled alongside me and kept pace until I stopped whereupon I was asked numerous questions about where I had been, where I was going, why I was running, etc. Again you could take a cynical "f*** da Police" attitude and wax lyrical about how its an affront to privacy and freedom and other s
t like that, but in reality - again - it was proactive policing. They suspected me of possibly going equipped to commit a burglary or similar crime, and once they had established that I wasn't that was the end of it.As regards your experience speeding aside I don't think it's particularly offensive to be asked questions that seek to ascertain whether you've stolen the car or not. You can take umbrage at that if you like but I'd much rather they be proactive in this way, and potentially catch stolen vehicles that the owner has not realised had been taken yet, even if it causes mild offence.
As an aside I find it very hard to understand (I'm taking the OP account as read) people not having any kind of ID on them whatsoever. When I go to the gym I still have my wallet somewhere, or at least bank card in case of emergency or whatever.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff