'No less than' 76 in a 50

[R8Steve]

Mk3Spitfire said:

R8Steve said:

No idea as that situation hasn't arisen. I'll let you know if it does though.

It's a patronising question when asked in the way it was, that's my opinion whether you believe it to be justified or not.

I note you overlook the fact that they made up a speed to fit a charge and threatened to take me down to the station to 'make sure i was who i said i was'

Maybe we're closer to having ID cards than we think

I didn't overlook anything.
The police could have been lying. You could have been lying. I don't know either you or the cops, and wasn't there, so would be silly to speculate.
Was it a threat? Or was it a fact? If they believed the car was stolen, they could have done just that. Arrested you, and out you on a livescan.
PNC doesn't prove the person driving is the owner/insured. You telling them you're jo bloggs might not be enough. Believe it or not, car thieves don't always tell the truth.
It's half two in the morning, you're wearing gym clothes and, as we keep hearing, you were driving a nice car. Might have looked suspicious to them?
Like I said, I don't know you and I don't know them.

I have never mentioned what kind of car i was driving.

So without an ID card or some sort of ID i am potentially at risk of being arrested every time i go out?

I understand what you are saying and understand why that question may be asked, i believe had you been there you would have agreed it could have been handled better.

How would livescan out me out of curiosity? I'm not familiar with what that is.

[R8Steve]

Mk3Spitfire said:

R8Steve said:

I have never mentioned what kind of car i was driving.

So without an ID card or some sort of ID i am potentially at risk of being arrested every time i go out?

I understand what you are saying and understand why that question may be asked, i believe had you been there you would have agreed it could have been handled better.

How would livescan out me out of curiosity? I'm not familiar with what that is.

Sorry, that was autocorrect playing its part. Or my fat fingers.
It should say "put" you on livescan, not "out" you.
Livescan is the fingerprint machine which can be used to confirm identity. Obviously this is assuming your prints are on record, so not directly related to you personally as I have no clue if yours are!

It's easy for people to judge who weren't there. I guess the only people who really know what happened are you, and the police.

My fingerprints are not on file so we would still be in the same predicament down at the station

[R8Steve]

pork911 said:

OP from what and how you've posted i imagine you failed the attitude test by jumping straight to a fail on the ahole test

I'd love the hear how you come to that conclusion.

Take's one to know one I suppose eh?

[R8Steve]

pork911 said:

So how well do you think you hid your irritation and annoyance?

Quite well as it happens, there are some polite people left in the world it may shock you to know. I did question the speed and the video situation as I'm sure anyone would but if he thought I was an asshole I can only presume he'd made his mind up before he even met me.

[R8Steve]

pork911 said:

R8Steve said:

pork911 said:

So how well do you think you hid your irritation and annoyance?

Quite well as it happens, there are some polite people left in the world it may shock you to know. I did question the speed and the video situation as I'm sure anyone would but if he thought I was an asshole I can only presume he'd made his mind up before he even met me.

So the annoyance and irritation over what you felt were impertinent and irrelevant questions only bubbled later, resulting in a rant on the internet? Hmmmmm.

That's correct, there's a time and place for everything. If you refer to my original post it was a simple question, has anyone had a FPN with the words 'no less than' on it as it seems a bit vague, that is all.

[R8Steve]

pork911 said:

R8Steve said:

That's correct, there's a time and place for everything. If you refer to my original post it was a simple question, has anyone had a FPN with the words 'no less than' on it as it seems a bit vague, that is all.

yeah, sure looks like that simple question

You’re the officer in question, aren’t you? Can’t imagine why you would act as such otherwise tbh!

vonhosen said:

It's not vague in relation to whether you were exceeding the speed limit though.
They don't have to show the exact speed you were travelling at, just convince the court you were travelling at 'a' speed that was in excess of the limit.

i.e. if when I am doing 76mph in a 50 & you are pulling away from me & at no time am I able to maintain a constant distance from you in order to measure your speed with my speedo, then I can say that you were doing no less than 76mph in a 50 at that time.

There is absolutely no way I was doing more than 76, never mind enough to noticeably pull away from someone in that short a distance which is my point. I had already slowed from a 70mph zone to enter the 50mph zone knowing fine well it is a police hotspot, both marked and unmarked. There was no lights in my rear view mirror during this time and the officer, by his own admission, came on at the last slip road which is approx half a mile at most away. So he would have needed to come on to the motorway round a twisty sliproad, accelerate to at least 76mph, observe me keeping pace or accelerating away from him at a time I would have be slowing for a junction that is a sharp corner with a set of traffic lights almost immediately off it?

Sounds doubtful to me. Had he said you were doing 56 in a 50 and gave me an FPN, fair enough, I accept that would be possible. To say I was doing closer to 80, more than 50% over the speed limit, no.

[R8Steve]

blindswelledrat said:

R8, an identical thing happened to me some years ago and I 100% understand and agree with your frustration.
Effectively they were wrong, and just because you were speeding it doesn't mean you should accept it. Most of us speed on a daily basis and none of us would be happy with a speeding fine based on nothing other than "well you did speed at some stage that day", regardless of whether it's correct. It didn't help in my case that the officers were complete tossers and actually constructed lies to back their story up. Anyone who will read this will probably think that sentence is bks and I must have 'failed the attitude test' or similar, but the terrifying thing is that it's true and you feel helpless because you know you wont be believed. The reality is that every profession has their bad eggs.

A couple of actual legal points which don't seem to have been mentioned (sorry if it is repeated- I only skim read).
They can actually do this with no measuring equipment if 2 police officers independently form the same view of your speed. That counts as evidence.
I had planned to defend it and prove that it was impossible for me to be doing the speed they said, hence their opinion was incorrect. In the end I took expert advice and the solicitor dismissed my own thought process and in the space of 2 seconds and then immediately laughed at the police evidence which stated "I asked my colleague if he believed Blindswelledrat was speeding" and said that this sentence instantly destroyed the "independently forming" opinion of the second officer.
As it ended up the police didn't even turn up to court and I got my costs paid.

I appreciate you clarifying that this kind of thing does happen and not like some jumping to the fact that I must be an asshole for it to happen!

I can genuinely say that I was not doing that speed and done nothing to antagonise the officer who stopped me. Do i feel hard done by? Yes, and why shouldn’t I. I’m sure if the police came up to someone in the street and gave them a breach of the peace fine when they were simply walking to work would feel the same. Unlikely to happen, but again, not impossible.

Unfortunately due to the fear of having someone with pork911’s mentality as a judge in court and the potential to get more than 3 points due to the alleged speed I believe it’s too much risk>reward in this case. I will pay the FPN and take the points. I currently have a clean licence so it’s not the end of the world.