Unfair Dismissal
Discussion
Daughter gets married next month and my future Son in law has just been told he does not come up to the grade and they want him to leave at the end of term (July). He's a school teacher working at an International school in Cologne Germany on a British Tutors contract (written in German).
Basically the letter sacking him is total fabrication and they have cited things that either never happened and mentioned issues he was totally unaware of. They are also blaming him for an incident he had no control over and his head of PE was teaching next to him at the time. They are in the process of reducing the PE staff from 4 to 3 and it seems they are using him as a scapegoat to reduce the staff numbers. There is also another letter saying he will recieve full pay until Aug, obviously he still has to work but as you can imagine dosen't want to but, if he seeks legal advice they will terminate his employment as soon as he starts any legal procedures. Annoyingly, one of the issues mentioned in the letter is his lack of supervisory skills with the children and commitment to pastoral duties. Yet, this Weekend he has to take the kids rugby team away by himself, something he does not get paid for. It all seems to have started after he refused to step in for the head of PE on a Weekend football duty.
Sorry for the long boring whinge but, I have all the information (to long winded to write about here) and really feel for him. He's not sleeping, struggling to eat properly and is panicking about returning on Monday. Any advice for an avenue he can turn to (no Union for British tutors) where he could recieve free advice to see if it's worth perusing?
Basically the letter sacking him is total fabrication and they have cited things that either never happened and mentioned issues he was totally unaware of. They are also blaming him for an incident he had no control over and his head of PE was teaching next to him at the time. They are in the process of reducing the PE staff from 4 to 3 and it seems they are using him as a scapegoat to reduce the staff numbers. There is also another letter saying he will recieve full pay until Aug, obviously he still has to work but as you can imagine dosen't want to but, if he seeks legal advice they will terminate his employment as soon as he starts any legal procedures. Annoyingly, one of the issues mentioned in the letter is his lack of supervisory skills with the children and commitment to pastoral duties. Yet, this Weekend he has to take the kids rugby team away by himself, something he does not get paid for. It all seems to have started after he refused to step in for the head of PE on a Weekend football duty.
Sorry for the long boring whinge but, I have all the information (to long winded to write about here) and really feel for him. He's not sleeping, struggling to eat properly and is panicking about returning on Monday. Any advice for an avenue he can turn to (no Union for British tutors) where he could recieve free advice to see if it's worth perusing?
Feel for him.
Can't give any specific advice, but if they want him out I guess the best thing is to move on & look to the future.
Some things you can't fight.
Been there a number of times & it always worked out for the best.
for the future
Can't give any specific advice, but if they want him out I guess the best thing is to move on & look to the future.
Some things you can't fight.
Been there a number of times & it always worked out for the best.
for the futureEdited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Friday 6th March 19:35
That's what I've told him. They are living in Germany, will need to up sticks (my Daughters wage will not cover their bills she is also a teacher at the school) move back to the UK, possibly without employment, all a few months after they get married. This was supposed to be their best year
Both start applying now for teaching posts commencing September in schools in this country. Still being paid to the end of July, so it's not as though they've suddenly lost one salary.
Whilst travelling for the interviews is going to be a bit of a drag, as already said they need to move on with their lives.
Good luck to them both.
Whilst travelling for the interviews is going to be a bit of a drag, as already said they need to move on with their lives.
Good luck to them both.
Edited by paintman on Friday 6th March 19:54
Look on the bright side: At least he has actually told his future wife. I was put through a "manage the little s
t out of the business process" over the space of 4 months, and I was stupidly too thick to actually tell my wife there was a problem, until the point of no return.
The best he can hope to get out of this is a decent reference in lieu of making a fuss.
Oh and remember the words of wisdom (from my best man) - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.........apart from polio obviously.
t out of the business process" over the space of 4 months, and I was stupidly too thick to actually tell my wife there was a problem, until the point of no return. The best he can hope to get out of this is a decent reference in lieu of making a fuss.
Oh and remember the words of wisdom (from my best man) - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.........apart from polio obviously.
This is complicated by the fact the contract will be bound by German law and I'm not a lawyer in either country. However, while they probably can cease his employment if he does take legal action, I really cannot see how the taking of legal advice can possibly get back to them - unless German solicitors always rat you out to the other side!
I do however think you've already had the best advice, seek a new job in England starting in September.
I do however think you've already had the best advice, seek a new job in England starting in September.
If they do get to the point of moving back at the end of July - or just him - without a job in place then consider signing up with a couple of supply teaching agencies. My wife retired from teaching but still does supply work & my youngest has been appointed to a full time post at a school where he was on long term supply.
Edited by paintman on Friday 6th March 20:36
Interesting that education pulls the same crap there as here.
He should get something in writing about receiving a non-prejudicial reference and time off to attend interviews during the notice period. Ideally apply for other positions as soon as possible to ensure they do not pull a fast one when it comes to the references. I guess it is complicated by the fact that your daughter is at the same school, presumably they know they are getting married? I would not put it past this type (educationalists not Germans) to have the idea that dropping one will mean the other will go too.
They should put as much money to one side as possible to give them a bit of a buffer and take the stress off if possible.
Chin up, move on and let the idiots at the school rot in their own juices, life is too short to let people like this ruin it.
Yeah, been there and now have a much better job with people I like, doing things I enjoy.
He should get something in writing about receiving a non-prejudicial reference and time off to attend interviews during the notice period. Ideally apply for other positions as soon as possible to ensure they do not pull a fast one when it comes to the references. I guess it is complicated by the fact that your daughter is at the same school, presumably they know they are getting married? I would not put it past this type (educationalists not Germans) to have the idea that dropping one will mean the other will go too.
They should put as much money to one side as possible to give them a bit of a buffer and take the stress off if possible.
Chin up, move on and let the idiots at the school rot in their own juices, life is too short to let people like this ruin it.
Yeah, been there and now have a much better job with people I like, doing things I enjoy.
Fingers crossed something will turn up.
I actually told him to go and see a Dr and mention stress. Probably get signed off for a few weeks and allow him time to sort things out but, to his credit he said he couldn't do that. With my daughter and future husband leaving at the end of term this will now total 12 teachers in all leaving this year, so I suppose it says a lot about the school.
I actually told him to go and see a Dr and mention stress. Probably get signed off for a few weeks and allow him time to sort things out but, to his credit he said he couldn't do that. With my daughter and future husband leaving at the end of term this will now total 12 teachers in all leaving this year, so I suppose it says a lot about the school.
tony wright said:
Fingers crossed something will turn up.
I actually told him to go and see a Dr and mention stress. Probably get signed off for a few weeks and allow him time to sort things out but, to his credit he said he couldn't do that. With my daughter and future husband leaving at the end of term this will now total 12 teachers in all leaving this year, so I suppose it says a lot about the school.
He's probably made the correct decision. Looking forward he doesn't want to be telling next employers he's been off with stress.I actually told him to go and see a Dr and mention stress. Probably get signed off for a few weeks and allow him time to sort things out but, to his credit he said he couldn't do that. With my daughter and future husband leaving at the end of term this will now total 12 teachers in all leaving this year, so I suppose it says a lot about the school.
Slidingpillar said:
I really cannot see how the taking of legal advice can possibly get back to them.
This ^^ Get all the information together and seek legal advice with an employment lawyer in Germany. Also, look at the unemployment benefit situation and how this would work. From my experience, if things have not been done to the book, he'll be fine.Ask him to see if the school has a Betriebsrat. These are very common in German workplaces and they can sometimes be very helpful.
If he does see the Doctor, then it is very easy to get a Krankschein that will allow him time to recover from stress for a couple of weeks. If there have been so many teachers leaving, then it says something about the school. Do they not want to look for jobs in Germany as opposed to going back to the UK? There are more advantages to being married here and they would both be entitled to a lot more maternity leave if/when kids come along.
If he does see the Doctor, then it is very easy to get a Krankschein that will allow him time to recover from stress for a couple of weeks. If there have been so many teachers leaving, then it says something about the school. Do they not want to look for jobs in Germany as opposed to going back to the UK? There are more advantages to being married here and they would both be entitled to a lot more maternity leave if/when kids come along.
Apparently his contract is a bit weird, he is a self employed British teacher working in an Iternational school in Germany. My Daughter is different as she is on a German contract, as previously mentioned it may all be down to trying to get rid of her as apparently it's very difficult to do and I think her contract costs the school more.
Not much chance of either of them remaining in Germany as they are not very good with the language. There was never an need for them to speak fluent German as the children must speak English at all times and most of the teachers(90%) are English. The incident I mentioned earlier is down to him not understanding the language. He was reprimanded for not doing anything about a bullying problem, two of the kids made a dangerous tackle on the football field and started arguing. He broke it up and asked what was going on but, both said nothing. He later found out that the bully (who made the bad tackle) then abused the other kid, calling him a Jew and talking about the past (you can imagine what he said). Obviously Son in law had no idea what had been said as both kids refused to talk. Worst of all the school were aware of the bullying problem but, had neglected to inform the teachers. This is why he received a written warning as the parents complained, so they used him as a scapegoat.
Not much chance of either of them remaining in Germany as they are not very good with the language. There was never an need for them to speak fluent German as the children must speak English at all times and most of the teachers(90%) are English. The incident I mentioned earlier is down to him not understanding the language. He was reprimanded for not doing anything about a bullying problem, two of the kids made a dangerous tackle on the football field and started arguing. He broke it up and asked what was going on but, both said nothing. He later found out that the bully (who made the bad tackle) then abused the other kid, calling him a Jew and talking about the past (you can imagine what he said). Obviously Son in law had no idea what had been said as both kids refused to talk. Worst of all the school were aware of the bullying problem but, had neglected to inform the teachers. This is why he received a written warning as the parents complained, so they used him as a scapegoat.
If language is a problem then I can see why they ant to go back. It does sound like quite a crap situation but if the real reason is getting your daughter to leave, then they are going about it in the right way as firing her could prove expensive depending on when she started working there.
The Germans are pretty hot with regard to anti semitism so I can see why he was reprimanded but it was very poor from of the school not to inform him of the ongoing bullying.
It seems like he has been given a good offer of pay until the end of the school year. Would he consider joining an English College that teaches business English etc. There must be a couple in the Cologne area.
The Germans are pretty hot with regard to anti semitism so I can see why he was reprimanded but it was very poor from of the school not to inform him of the ongoing bullying.
It seems like he has been given a good offer of pay until the end of the school year. Would he consider joining an English College that teaches business English etc. There must be a couple in the Cologne area.
The offer of pay till the end of term is not a one off payment, he has to remain there and teach as normal until end the end of July.
He would of done something about the situation at the time if he had understood what the kid had said. The other issue is, his boss (head of PE) was teaching his class, football on the other half of the astro turf at the same time and did nothing about it or understood the problem.
He would of done something about the situation at the time if he had understood what the kid had said. The other issue is, his boss (head of PE) was teaching his class, football on the other half of the astro turf at the same time and did nothing about it or understood the problem.
tony wright said:
Apparently his contract is a bit weird, he is a self employed British teacher working in an Iternational school in Germany. My Daughter is different as she is on a German contract, as previously mentioned it may all be down to trying to get rid of her as apparently it's very difficult to do and I think her contract costs the school more. .
I suggest she continues to work in the school, and plays hard ball, bluff it out that actually it's not a problem. She might even pretend that they have split up.Nowt wrong with starting married life with a bit of long distance commuting. Then later, she can make an off the record offer. Work on the principle that If they want rid of her, they will have to pay.
Toltec said:
Interesting that education pulls the same crap there as here.
He should get something in writing about receiving a non-prejudicial reference and time off to attend interviews during the notice period. Ideally apply for other positions as soon as possible to ensure they do not pull a fast one when it comes to the references. I guess it is complicated by the fact that your daughter is at the same school, presumably they know they are getting married? I would not put it past this type (educationalists not Germans) to have the idea that dropping one will mean the other will go too.
They should put as much money to one side as possible to give them a bit of a buffer and take the stress off if possible.
Chin up, move on and let the idiots at the school rot in their own juices, life is too short to let people like this ruin it.
Yeah, been there and now have a much better job with people I like, doing things I enjoy.
Interesting conclusions from simply reading a few posts from a third party with a one sided view.He should get something in writing about receiving a non-prejudicial reference and time off to attend interviews during the notice period. Ideally apply for other positions as soon as possible to ensure they do not pull a fast one when it comes to the references. I guess it is complicated by the fact that your daughter is at the same school, presumably they know they are getting married? I would not put it past this type (educationalists not Germans) to have the idea that dropping one will mean the other will go too.
They should put as much money to one side as possible to give them a bit of a buffer and take the stress off if possible.
Chin up, move on and let the idiots at the school rot in their own juices, life is too short to let people like this ruin it.
Yeah, been there and now have a much better job with people I like, doing things I enjoy.
Are you sure you're not a little biased?
paintman said:
Both start applying now for teaching posts commencing September in schools in this country.
Applying for those will be even better after May half term, as any teacher in a full-time existing post will need to resign by May 31 to take up a September job (notice period is a full half term).This means that any school with jobs unfilled after May will only be looking at people without an existing full-time job in the UK. Which in turn means that their competition will probably be low. Not to mention that schools with places for September unfilled by June are really looking hard to fill them - supply teachers are expensive and their quality is, to be charitable, variable.
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