'Justice for Henry Hicks'

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Discussion

andy118run

Original Poster:

866 posts

205 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4346338233...

This popped up on my Facebook page earlier - I don't pay a lot of attention to 99% of stuff shared on facebook but found myself reading it and slightly intrigued.

Did a search on here but did not find any threads (maybe it's just not that newsworthy).

Had a look on google and there's a few stories including this one -
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/henry_hicks...

Anybody out there been following this? Any opinions?

Only read a few snippets but why would the police have 'harrased him day by day raiding his house to find nothing, stop and searching him on a daily and then chasing him and taking his life?' Why, if you've nothing to hide, would you not stop for the police (sounds as though they were at the very least displaying blues, albeit in an unmarked vehicle(s)).

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
was he failing to stop?

if so its on his own head, personal responsibility


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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It sounds like grieving family / friends looking for someone other than the decreased to attribute blame to, as that makes it less painful / allows them "to do something" and channel their emotion / energy.

It happens often when someone dies within police contact, or more directly (e.g. Mark Duggan).



JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
It does seem a very strange story.

That said, and I am sorry to say, many such stories seem strange when you only hear half of it.

I note that the official foundation literature don't mention that for some unknown reason the guy was stop and searched 'daily' and apparently raided by the police which is what the Facebook link mentions.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
So from the press article...

"Mr Hicks... was on a black Vespa scooter when it hit a parked car... and went into the path of an oncoming Saab.

He was being followed by a police car, believed to have had its blue light flashing."

...but from FB...

"Henry was driving his moped when 4 police officers in a unmarked car chased him, Henry must've been so scared not knowing who it was chasing him and wondering what reason it was for, as anyone would do he carried on driving.. unfortunatly this lead to him crashing his bike and sadly passing away. The police caused this."

As ever, it's so much more than an Egyptian river...

V8forweekends

2,481 posts

123 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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On the petition there's a claim that the Police "kicked in the door for no reason". I know they make mistakes, get the wrong address etc, I wonder what their version of this is - as much as I think the Police should be held to account for any wrongdoing, I find it hard to believe there isn't a bit more to all this.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
The IPCC said:
The IPCC investigation into events surrounding the death of Henry Hicks remains ongoing.

IPCC investigators have now reviewed CCTV footage, including from cameras located in Wheelwright Street, Islington, where the fatal incident occurred. There has also been expert examination of both Henry’s Vespa scooter and police vehicles, and we have taken statements from independent witnesses who were at the scene.

The IPCC is able to confirm at this stage, and based on the evidence reviewed, that Henry collided with a stationary Ford Galaxy belonging to a member of the public before coming off his scooter which then came to rest in the path of a Saab 9-3 also belonging to a member of the public. The CCTV shows that no police vehicle hit Henry or his scooter.

However, the IPCC will continue to robustly investigate all the actions of the police leading up to the tragic events on Wheelwright Street.

IPCC investigators have updated Henry’s family on these developments and the IPCC commissioner has met with community and youth representatives to update them on the scope of the investigation and listen to their concerns about the events leading up to Henry’s death.

andy118run

Original Poster:

866 posts

205 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
No laughing matter that a young man lost his life but some of the anti-police comments on the FB page really makes you wonder about some people -

"he never deserved this nor his family to lose their boy and then to be fighting a hard battle against the biggest gang in the the world"

"police all ways hide thing i share this to my page"

"Signed and shared, disgusting police should be out catching real criminals, instead of chasing innocent Young lads!"



Eclassy

1,201 posts

121 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
V8forweekends said:
On the petition there's a claim that the Police "kicked in the door for no reason".
It wont be no reason but more of a case of incompetence or an inability to spell.

Do we know why the police went after him in the first place? Was he breaking any laws? Were they acting on intelligence or did they just fancy stopping a 'yob on a scooter'?

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
Eclassy said:
It wont be no reason but more of a case of incompetence or an inability to spell.

Do we know why the police went after him in the first place? Was he breaking any laws? Were they acting on intelligence or did they just fancy stopping a 'yob on a scooter'?
And I suppose you do know?

nurseholliday

173 posts

191 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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I go past the ridiculous flower memorial on the corner of Wheelwright and Roman Way on my commute. I keep seeing teenage girls holding some sort of vigil, didn't know what it was about until I saw this.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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No one will know what went on in the incident until the IPCC reports. One chief constable, who knew the circumstances of an incident, said that he trusted his officers and for saying that he was fired, in a manner that many felt at the time was, if not illegal, then against accepted behaviour. That was in the days when labour was seen at the anti-police party.

I know of another incident that was nothing more than a squabble outside a night club between two men who should have known better. One punch was thrown and this led to accusations of police incompetence, of a cover up, of the most expensive enquiry in that police force's history.

The circumstances as they are reported, that is without the police side, is that the rider of a motor cycle crashed, killing the pillion rider.

I was in charge of a pursuit for all of >15 seconds. I timed it. A traffic car wanted to stop a 4x4. It came up on the air to inform ops1 as per normal, and I got up off my chair and by the time I'd got to the end of my desk, the radio operator had said that due to the nature of the driving of the target, they were abandoning the pursuit.

In effect, all they had done was a U-Turn, put on the blues, then switched them off.

The 4x4 driver lost it some minutes later, killing the passenger, this whilst the originating unit was stationary, and had been so for some time. This went down as a pursuit death. IPCC involved of course and the whole enquiry went as swiftly as one would expect in such circumstances. The IPCC's findings, that the police were blameless and the driver (and I) had followed all protocols was published with exactly the same prominence as the report on the 'DEATH IN POLICE CHASE'. Nearly.

We were spared the 'gifted football player' and the public was spared the history of the two people involved.

So I repeat: no one will know what went on until the IPCC reports, and if they find the police performed properly and in accordance with protocols, then we won't know as well. Further, if the IPCC find the police did not follow all protocols, but those they did not had no influence on the death, then we will be told about the 'POLICE FAILURES IN DEATH CHASE' but the IPCC's caveat will be only available to those who bother to read the whole report.

No parent should outlive their child. It is the cruelest of penalties. It is tremendously sad.


Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Monday 9th March 2015
quotequote all
Eclassy said:
It wont be no reason but more of a case of incompetence or an inability to spell.

Do we know why the police went after him in the first place? Was he breaking any laws? Were they acting on intelligence or did they just fancy stopping a 'yob on a scooter'?
The thing is you don't actually know, so any speculation is meaningless and only based on your own experiences and opinions, none of which bear any relation to this event.

XCP

16,876 posts

227 months

Monday 9th March 2015
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I wonder why he didn't just stop.

ging84

8,829 posts

145 months

Tuesday 10th March 2015
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how does someone chase a vespa in a car?
do they do it by driving normally to the speed limit and not over taking it?

desamax

33 posts

97 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
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Seems like a big cover up, the inquest has started. Police trying to make the boy look like a villain. And so far one officer has changed his original statement. The lad had no convictions.
And the poor lads family can't look the accused in the eye, they are banned from seeing the 4 police give their account. Live


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...


anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
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How would it be a 'cover-up' when a QC is scrutinising two statements in front a jury?

It indicates to me the following:

1) Never give an initial account as an officer after a major incident.

2) Be cautious about taking active accounts, as an investigator, from a witness just after they've witnessed something traumatic.

They're thrashing out whether or not it was a pursuit - look at what questions the Coroner is asking the jury to decide upon. The lad has either crashed on his own, or crashed when failing to stop. Either way, it's probably his fault for crashing or failing to stop and crashing. We'll see what the outcomes are.

He has no convictions. So? Most of the time with pursuits you don't know who the driver is.

The officer isn't an 'accused', he's a witness.

He was found with several bags of cannabis, which suggests the information the police were working with was accurate: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/henry-hicks-i...

The family deserve the truth of what occurred.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
How would it be a 'cover-up' when a QC is scrutinising two statements in front a jury?

It indicates to me the following:

1) Never give an initial account as an officer after a major incident.

2) Be cautious about taking active accounts, as an investigator, from a witness just after they've witnessed something traumatic.

They're thrashing out whether or not it was a pursuit - look at what questions the Coroner is asking the jury to decide upon. The lad has either crashed on his own, or crashed when failing to stop. Either way, it's probably his fault for crashing or failing to stop and crashing. We'll see what the outcomes are.

He has no convictions. So? Most of the time with pursuits you don't know who the driver is.

The officer isn't an 'accused', he's a witness.

He was found with several bags of cannabis, which suggests the information the police were working with was accurate: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/henry-hicks-i...

The family deserve the truth of what occurred.
Do they want the truth or just confirmation that their little cherub "didn't do nuttin"

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I expect you're correct and it'll be similar to the family of Mark Duggan / Menezes (the latter one can certainly sympathise with), where the families will keep ploughing along fruitless legal routes.



Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I expect you're correct and it'll be similar to the family of Mark Duggan / Menezes (the latter one can certainly sympathise with), where the families will keep ploughing along fruitless legal routes.
Whilst all the time the bobbies involved get put through the mill over and over again....