Estate Agent claiming sale
Discussion
Thanks, Ill look more into this.
During a phone call to my ex EA1 accused EA2 of being ruthless! Needless to say she told them what she thought of all of them.
Received another email from EA1 this morning -
" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
During a phone call to my ex EA1 accused EA2 of being ruthless! Needless to say she told them what she thought of all of them.
Received another email from EA1 this morning -
" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
blueg33 said:
Usually the estate agents terms and conditions will make it clear what they think and introduction is.
The key thing under the Estate Agents Acts and various case studies is "Effective Introduction", but this can be tempered by the terms and conditions you signed up to You will need to serach the web to find out how that definition is applied. If your agreement says something like "Sole Selling Rights" the you are highly likely to have to pay two fees.
I think you need to take this up with both agents ASAP, the aim is to get them to agree how the fee is split, but make it clear that you will be paying only 1 fee. The issue is moere common than you might think, we sometimes get it on land deals, worst one I had was two agents each claiming £200k.
Yu could always start by telling agent 1 to "Foxtrot Oscar" as they did not make an Effective Introduction
As for the Data Protection Act bit, what a total load of b
ks, EA2 sounds like a bit of a plank. What's teh betting that EA2 alreadty knew that the buyer had viewed through EA1>
The key thing under the Estate Agents Acts and various case studies is "Effective Introduction", but this can be tempered by the terms and conditions you signed up to You will need to serach the web to find out how that definition is applied. If your agreement says something like "Sole Selling Rights" the you are highly likely to have to pay two fees.
I think you need to take this up with both agents ASAP, the aim is to get them to agree how the fee is split, but make it clear that you will be paying only 1 fee. The issue is moere common than you might think, we sometimes get it on land deals, worst one I had was two agents each claiming £200k.
Yu could always start by telling agent 1 to "Foxtrot Oscar" as they did not make an Effective Introduction
As for the Data Protection Act bit, what a total load of b
ks, EA2 sounds like a bit of a plank. What's teh betting that EA2 alreadty knew that the buyer had viewed through EA1>Again, thanks- Ill show this to the ex then we can put this to the solicitor. Ex has an appointment next week at Citizens Advice about this and has asked me along.
I still think that EA2 should be dealing with this and telling EA1 to do one.
I still think that EA2 should be dealing with this and telling EA1 to do one.
Rangeroverover said:
You will have received a "memorandum of Sale" from the selling agent, it is a letter that goes to both solicitors, the buyer and the seller so that everyone has the same information. All info will be on that.
Make sure you instruct your solicitor not to pay out any fees to either agent until this is sorted, if the solicitor is difficult remember YOU ARE THE CLIENT, he may not like it but ultimately will follow your instructions
Good Luck
PS it may be at worst case you can talk them down to a joint agent rate which round here is 2%
Make sure you instruct your solicitor not to pay out any fees to either agent until this is sorted, if the solicitor is difficult remember YOU ARE THE CLIENT, he may not like it but ultimately will follow your instructions
Good Luck
PS it may be at worst case you can talk them down to a joint agent rate which round here is 2%
EA2 is going to have to suck it up I'm afraid. The reason they are withholding the buyers name from you is because they know EA1 provided the initial intro and therefore has a rightful claim.
Legally how this gets sorted out I have no idea but I expect a fee split is the way forward? Get your solicitor on the case.
Legally how this gets sorted out I have no idea but I expect a fee split is the way forward? Get your solicitor on the case.
The more I think about this, and the fact that the terms are quite clear for six months after the instruction. The fed is due to ea1. Ea2 tough luck. The risk is that ea2 will steer the buyer to another property.
You need to get a meeting with the buyer ASAP and move the relationship to one between you and the buyer rather than between the buyer and the agent
You need to get a meeting with the buyer ASAP and move the relationship to one between you and the buyer rather than between the buyer and the agent
Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 12th March 06:51
blueg33 said:
...The issue is moere common than you might think...
I know for a fact that in the year 2013/14 one localish agent made more on commission for sales they failed to secure through this sort of thing than they made through physical sales they obtained and ran. They even employed a member of staff to deal with this as it made so much for them.Spanglepants said:
\
" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
You can be more clever than that. I'd respond by asking questions:" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
Our contract does not oblige me whatsoever to reveal details to you about my current house sale. It is my position that should the current sale proceed, that there will be no obligation contractual or otherwise to pay you commission for the sale.
However, if it is your genuine belief that we have a contractual obligation to you and have introduced the buyer, then so this matter can be resolved, please forward me the details of this person, and based upon the facts as they present themselves I will revert to you accordingly.
If you fail to do that in the next seven days, I can only presume that the previous correspondence has been a 'fishing exercise', and there matter is closed.
Regards
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 12th March 13:38
JustinP1 said:
Spanglepants said:
\
" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
You can be more clever than that. I'd respond by asking questions:" If you refer to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph titled Commission Fee Entitlement, it states we will have a commission fee entitlement if you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer, introduced by us within six months of the date our agreements ends.
If you could confirm the name and address of your buyer, it will help clear up this matter. "
How about F.O
Our contract does not oblige me whatsoever to reveal details to you about my current house sale. It is my position that should the current sale proceed, that there will be no obligation contractual or otherwise to pay you commission for the sale.
However, if it is your genuine belief that we have a contractual obligation to you and have introduced the buyer, then so this matter can be resolved, please forward me the details of this person, and based upon the facts as they present themselves I will revert to you accordingly.
If you fail to do that in the next seven days, I can only presume that the previous correspondence has been a 'fishing exercise', and there matter is closed.
Regards
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 12th March 13:38
JustinP1 said:
You can be more clever than that. I'd respond by asking questions:
Our contract does not oblige me whatsoever to reveal details to you about my current house sale. It is my position that should the current sale proceed, that there will be no obligation contractual or otherwise to pay you commission for the sale.
However, if it is your genuine belief that we have a contractual obligation to you and have introduced the buyer, then so this matter can be resolved, please forward me the details of this person, and based upon the facts as they present themselves I will revert to you accordingly.
If you fail to do that in the next seven days, I can only presume that the previous correspondence has been a 'fishing exercise', and there matter is closed.
Regards
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
Nice idea, wouldn't look great if it came to court. The parties have to act reasonably, it is reasonable for both parties to supply the name etc.Our contract does not oblige me whatsoever to reveal details to you about my current house sale. It is my position that should the current sale proceed, that there will be no obligation contractual or otherwise to pay you commission for the sale.
However, if it is your genuine belief that we have a contractual obligation to you and have introduced the buyer, then so this matter can be resolved, please forward me the details of this person, and based upon the facts as they present themselves I will revert to you accordingly.
If you fail to do that in the next seven days, I can only presume that the previous correspondence has been a 'fishing exercise', and there matter is closed.
Regards
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 12th March 13:38
I think both agents need to provide evidence of effective introduction. The Agents terms will almost certainly define the actions that constitue introducing a buyer (its part of the Estate Agents Provision of Informations Regulations IIRC)
JustinP1 said:
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
I was thinking that - I can't believe they've just put "sell" in that term. Id have expected "agree to sell". I would take "sell" as "complete".OP: Is your missus dealing with this? Maybe she is the client and that's why they won't give the buyer details to you. Otherwise the DPA excuse is absurd for the reason others have pointed out.
They know alright but want me to tell them, I guess for some reason this will enable them to request payment.
shanes2k said:
mmm-five said:
If EA1 doesn't have the name of the buyer, and EA2 won't disclose it to anyone, then how does EA1 know it's the same buyer?
This is what i was thinking.The buyers want to exchange contracts next week with a completion time at the end of april. Its gone on this long solely because I have had trouble finding alternative accommodation.
No my ex is not the client , Im in the house with out 2 sons who will continue to live with me when we move.
EA2 though have mostly been corresponding with my ex for some reason instead of me despite repeatedly asking them to contact myself especially as Im still living there.
I'll be the first to admit that Ive been a bit uninvolved since the house first went on the maker as I felt that as our youngest is still reasonably young I didn't actually have to agree to sell the property until he was 18 anyway.
Agreement ended with EA1 on Dec 23 . Spoke with EA2 today and their view is that EA1 will get nowhere with this, that the Omnbudsman wouldn't allow this.
Annoying thing is that my ex pushed, even sending me a solicitors letter, to use EA1 in the first place.
OP: Is your missus dealing with this? Maybe she is the client and that's why they won't give the buyer details to you. Otherwise the DPA excuse is absurd for the reason others have pointed out.
No my ex is not the client , Im in the house with out 2 sons who will continue to live with me when we move.
EA2 though have mostly been corresponding with my ex for some reason instead of me despite repeatedly asking them to contact myself especially as Im still living there.
I'll be the first to admit that Ive been a bit uninvolved since the house first went on the maker as I felt that as our youngest is still reasonably young I didn't actually have to agree to sell the property until he was 18 anyway.
Agreement ended with EA1 on Dec 23 . Spoke with EA2 today and their view is that EA1 will get nowhere with this, that the Omnbudsman wouldn't allow this.
Annoying thing is that my ex pushed, even sending me a solicitors letter, to use EA1 in the first place.
Sheepshanks said:
JustinP1 said:
ETA - When did your agreement with EA1 end? Is it likely the sale will complete in 6 months? If not they can't ask you for money under their own terms anyway...!
I was thinking that - I can't believe they've just put "sell" in that term. Id have expected "agree to sell". I would take "sell" as "complete".OP: Is your missus dealing with this? Maybe she is the client and that's why they won't give the buyer details to you. Otherwise the DPA excuse is absurd for the reason others have pointed out.
From what I've read it is EA1 who are owed a fee. If they introduced the buyer to your property (undertook a viewing) and within 6 months (there is precedent set for 6 months) from the end of their contract that buyer returns and a deal is done - they are owed the fee.
The moment EA2 realised they had previously seen the property they should refer the buyer to EA1.
Reading between the lines, EA2 just hoped EA1 wouldn't notice and they would get paid. Now EA1 has found out they are kicking up a stink and posturing in the hope that they get a split fee.
Hopefully EA1 sent a letter to EA2 with a list of names of people who viewed. If not, it's no big deal but they'll continue posturing further trying to get some of the fee.
The data protection stuff is laughable. I've never heard an agent try that on before.
Refuse to exchange until this is cleared up. EA1 will hopefully bite the bullet and agree a 50% split, and EA2 will be delighted that their tactics worked. Either way, just make sure you don't pay an agent anything without this being sorted first.
EA1 probably found out who the buyer is when they're canvassing their applicants and updating their database. They just need confirmation from either you or the other agent to be 100% sure.
What is important is that the agents don't leave it to you to decide who you owe a fee to - making the wrong decision could be costly. Make them sort it out between themselves and get a resolution in writing from both sides.
The moment EA2 realised they had previously seen the property they should refer the buyer to EA1.
Reading between the lines, EA2 just hoped EA1 wouldn't notice and they would get paid. Now EA1 has found out they are kicking up a stink and posturing in the hope that they get a split fee.
Hopefully EA1 sent a letter to EA2 with a list of names of people who viewed. If not, it's no big deal but they'll continue posturing further trying to get some of the fee.
The data protection stuff is laughable. I've never heard an agent try that on before.
Refuse to exchange until this is cleared up. EA1 will hopefully bite the bullet and agree a 50% split, and EA2 will be delighted that their tactics worked. Either way, just make sure you don't pay an agent anything without this being sorted first.
EA1 probably found out who the buyer is when they're canvassing their applicants and updating their database. They just need confirmation from either you or the other agent to be 100% sure.
What is important is that the agents don't leave it to you to decide who you owe a fee to - making the wrong decision could be costly. Make them sort it out between themselves and get a resolution in writing from both sides.
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Thursday 12th March 22:55
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Thursday 12th March 22:59
From what I've read it is EA1 who are owed a fee. If they introduced the buyer to your property (undertook a viewing) and within 6 months (there is precedent set for 6 months) from the end of their contract that buyer returns and a deal is done - they are owed the fee.
The moment EA2 realised they had previously seen the property they should refer the buyer to EA1.
Reading between the lines, EA2 just hoped EA1 wouldn't notice and they would get paid. Now EA1 has found out they are kicking up a stink and posturing in the hope that they get a split fee.
Hopefully EA1 sent a letter to EA2 with a list of names of people who viewed. If not, it's no big deal but they'll continue posturing further trying to get some of the fee.
The data protection stuff is laughable. I've never heard an agent try that on before.
Refuse to exchange until this is cleared up. EA1 will hopefully bite the bullet and agree a 50% split, and EA2 will be delighted that their tactics worked. Either way, just make sure you don't pay an agent anything without this being sorted first.
EA1 probably found out who the buyer is when they're canvassing their applicants and updating their database. They just need confirmation from either you or the other agent to be 100% sure.
What is important is that the agents don't leave it to you to decide who you owe a fee to - making the wrong decision could be costly. Make them sort it out between themselves and get a resolution in writing from both sides.
The moment EA2 realised they had previously seen the property they should refer the buyer to EA1.
Reading between the lines, EA2 just hoped EA1 wouldn't notice and they would get paid. Now EA1 has found out they are kicking up a stink and posturing in the hope that they get a split fee.
Hopefully EA1 sent a letter to EA2 with a list of names of people who viewed. If not, it's no big deal but they'll continue posturing further trying to get some of the fee.
The data protection stuff is laughable. I've never heard an agent try that on before.
Refuse to exchange until this is cleared up. EA1 will hopefully bite the bullet and agree a 50% split, and EA2 will be delighted that their tactics worked. Either way, just make sure you don't pay an agent anything without this being sorted first.
EA1 probably found out who the buyer is when they're canvassing their applicants and updating their database. They just need confirmation from either you or the other agent to be 100% sure.
What is important is that the agents don't leave it to you to decide who you owe a fee to - making the wrong decision could be costly. Make them sort it out between themselves and get a resolution in writing from both sides.
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Thursday 12th March 22:55
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Thursday 12th March 23:00
Spanglepants said:
Agreement ended with EA1 on Dec 23 . Spoke with EA2 today and their view is that EA1 will get nowhere with this, that the Omnbudsman wouldn't allow this.
Interesting. My repost would be that my loyalty to EA2 would be on the basis that they put their money where their mouth is for that assertion, and should you receive court papers through your door that they will cover that same claim so you can settle immediately.
Of course, should their assertion be simply b
ks just made up on the spot, EA1 would be suing you, personally for breach of contract not EA2 of course. That's a ticking time bomb, as all they'll have to do is pull up the Land Registry papers after completion.
You run the risk that is 2+2 does indeed equal 4 that you will have a bill on your doorstep where the onus will be on you, personally, to convince a court why the contract does not apply in this case.
Of course, EA2 will be a very distant old friend who can no longer help then...
Please also hold open the fact that the bulls
t regarding not revealing who the buyer is is simply a ruse to hold out for the last week until completion. Of course, once you have completed, you contractually own EA2 their fee. However of course, at that moment you'll also owe EA1 their fee on top of that, if indeed the buyer was theirs.
EA2 of course won't be explaining that predicament in as many words though.
Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 12th March 23:54
EA2 are after their fee. They will say whatever to get their commission. Carry on like this you sell, pay EA2 their commission.
A month later EA1 pays LR £3 and gets owners details. If they did introduce them they then sue you for their due commission. EA2 won't want to know.
There really is only one thing to do, get EA2 to talk to EA1 and come to an agreement between them as to who gets what. And get that agreement in writing from them, without it I wouldn't exchange, or be prepared to pay double commission
A month later EA1 pays LR £3 and gets owners details. If they did introduce them they then sue you for their due commission. EA2 won't want to know.
There really is only one thing to do, get EA2 to talk to EA1 and come to an agreement between them as to who gets what. And get that agreement in writing from them, without it I wouldn't exchange, or be prepared to pay double commission
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