150 mph M25 8-10

[PoleDriver]

LoonR1 said:

I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.

How does that work then? There are countries in this world where that speed is not illegal, or unusual. Same human beings, very similar roads!

All they did wrong was not obey an arbitrary number on a stick!

[Durzel]

PoleDriver said:

How does that work then? There are countries in this world where that speed is not illegal, or unusual. Same human beings, very similar roads!

All they did wrong was not obey an arbitrary number on a stick!

..an arbitrary number that other people were obeying.

If you can't see how closing on people at over double their speed could be fraught with risk to yourself and more importantly them I don't know what to tell you, and on the M25 of all places...

[ging84]

La Liga said:

ging84 said:

My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving

They don't, so no need to worry.

There are several threads on here of people claiming otherwise, sure they could have been holding back some detail,
But this one, they've gone to social media to tweet about the speed and the dangerous driving charge, pretty bad form of the 2 things are unrelated and it was actually another factor which made it dangerous driving.

[focusxr5]

Honestly, if the Ferarri had been yours and stolen and the Police had decided abort the pursuit as they didn't feel doing 150 was safe for them, then you would have had an epic whinge about Police not doing their job. The fact is that the pursuit cars have to fulfil all of the pursuit criteria and constantly dynamically risk assess while passing the information to a commander. At any point, a number of people are assessing the risk of the Police driving and anyone can call abort at any time. The tt in the Ferarri just pinned it and probably spent more time watching his Speedo than the road.

Money and a flash car doesn't grant driving skill. Extensive training and accreditation does that.

[PoleDriver]

Durzel said:

..an arbitrary number that other people were obeying.

If you can't see how closing on people at over double their speed could be fraught with risk to yourself and more importantly them I don't know what to tell you, and on the M25 of all places...

OK, I accept that it's unusual for that section of the M25 to be clear enough but, as for closing speeds, it is acceptable on some autobahns in Germany!
Going back to the actual incident, and how busy the M25 normally is, was the driver staying in one lane, weaving around cars in different lanes, driving at cars to make them move?
If any of the above then, yes, I agree the charge should be dangerous driving!

[anonymous-user]

ging84 said:

La Liga said:

ging84 said:

My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving

They don't, so no need to worry.

There are several threads on here of people claiming otherwise, sure they could have been holding back some detail,
But this one, they've gone to social media to tweet about the speed and the dangerous driving charge, pretty bad form of the 2 things are unrelated and it was actually another factor which made it dangerous driving.

What are they going to do on Twitter? Go into explicit detail about the factors which make it "more than speed alone?"

He's been arrested for the offence. That doesn't mean he'll be charged with it. Dangerous driving requires the CPS to make the charging decision. They will apply the law as it stands and assess whether or not there's a realistic prospect of conviction for dangerous driving or not.

[LoonR1]

PoleDriver said:

How does that work then? There are countries in this world where that speed is not illegal, or unusual. Same human beings, very similar roads!

All they did wrong was not obey an arbitrary number on a stick!

And there are countries in the world where the legal age of consent is 13. Do you defend paedos to the same extent?

That "arbitrary number" is the law of the land and that's the nub of it.

[ging84]

LoonR1 said:

And there are countries in the world where the legal age of consent is 13. Do you defend paedos to the same extent?

That "arbitrary number" is the law of the land and that's the nub of it.

In your unrelated situation do you feel it's ok for police to bang 13 year olds?

[RemyMartin]

CAFEDEAD said:

LoonR1 said:

I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.

I'd agree if the maximum permissible speed wasn't a joke in the first place.

But you've never had a bigger maximum speed. Why is it a joke? Or is your beef the fact you can't do what you want?

[8Ace]

This really pisses me off.

Driving at 150 mph on that stratech of road is bloody dangerous. It will not have been deserted and other drivers will not be expecting a car to close at that speed - doing it in the dark makes judging speed harder still.

It is a cretinous thing to do and all the fking whining about "nobody was killed" or even "good for him" makes PH look like a place populated by lunatics. Is there any surprise that the likes of Brake keep banging on about speed and evil motorists when you give them so much ammunition.

Speed doesn't kill, bad driving does. This was bad driving so stop making excuses for it.

[ShampooEfficient]

If the police received three calls about it, that would suggest the driving was substandard - I don't think there's that many people who would call to report a purely fast driver...

[CAFEDEAD]

RemyMartin said:

CAFEDEAD said:

LoonR1 said:

I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.

I'd agree if the maximum permissible speed wasn't a joke in the first place.

But you've never had a bigger maximum speed. Why is it a joke? Or is your beef the fact you can't do what you want?

Yes I have. Because half of all cars, bikes and vans exceed it despite it being a "limit". No, I can do what I want.

[longblackcoat]

ging84 said:

LoonR1 said:

You may claim that was your point but it wasn't. You were trying to be clever and explicitly asked if the police were to face charges too. Whatever you were implying wasn't as clear.

Have a look at the definition of Dangerous driving and see if this would meet that criteria at first look. I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.

The it also needs to be dangerous, you could argue that speed alone above a certain threshold is dangerous, but then you would also then have to say, no police driver should ever drive above that threshold without facing charges, because they have no exemption for dangerous driving.
They shouldn't have it both ways, they shouldn't let their drivers drive above this threshold, but automatically charge everyone else with dangerous driving for exceeding it.

Are you one of those "freemen on the land" types?

[PoleDriver]

So tomorrow 'BRAKE' get their way and the maximum speed on the motorway becomes 40 MPH. Would driving at 70 MPH then be construed as dangerous driving or speeding?

[PurpleMoonlight]

There are some roads in the UK were you could argue 150 mph is not dangerous driving at certain times, but the M25 is not one of them.

[ging84]

longblackcoat said:

Are you one of those "freemen on the land" types?

No i have a few very simple objections
and one is the laws on dangerous driving being used in place of the laws on speeding, to secure a higher sentence.

[LoonR1]

ging84 said:

In your unrelated situation do you feel it's ok for police to bang 13 year olds?

Straw man argument. I never suggested it was OK in any country to bang a 13 year old.

[anonymous-user]

ging84 said:

longblackcoat said:

Are you one of those "freemen on the land" types?

No i have a few very simple objections
and one is the laws on dangerous driving being used in place of the laws on speeding, to secure a higher sentence.

What's the incentive for that?

1) Summons for excess speed = very little time / effort / work.

2) Dangerous = arrest (if necessary), interview (probably bail), witness statements and other evidence gathering, report to CPS, speak to CPS, charge, full file. Higher probability of NG plea = more work, standby for court, attend court.

[LoonR1]

PoleDriver said:

So tomorrow 'BRAKE' get their way and the maximum speed on the motorway becomes 40 MPH. Would driving at 70 MPH then be construed as dangerous driving or speeding?

Quite possibly. The danger is in the potential impact on other road users. On some autobahns you can go as fast as you like and all roadusers are aware of this and expect to see cars doing 150mph or more.

In mainland Britain the limit is 70 on motorways as a maximum and less in some places, that means very, very few people are prepared for the closing speeds associated with 150mph.

The same logic applies to people doing 70 in a 40 irrespective of what the speed used to be.

Time and a place. This was clearly neither.

[Pixelpeep7r]

I was just helping the environment officer.

It's a known fact that if i spend too long in the same position my Co2 output will cause more problems than if i was moving at a reasonable rate.

Ergo i was trying to minimise my impact on mother nature.

Can i go now?