150 mph M25 8-10
Discussion
Pixelpeep7r said:
I was just helping the environment officer.
It's a known fact that if i spend too long in the same position my Co2 output will cause more problems than if i was moving at a reasonable rate.
Ergo i was trying to minimise my impact on mother nature.
Can i go now?
I know that's tongue in cheek, but some on here are stupid enough to believe that. I defy anyone who comes up with these daft comments to try them on in real life. It's a known fact that if i spend too long in the same position my Co2 output will cause more problems than if i was moving at a reasonable rate.
Ergo i was trying to minimise my impact on mother nature.
Can i go now?
The best one has to be the guy who suggested keeping on going. I'll lay odds he'd have stopped IRL
ging84 said:
No i have a few very simple objections
and one is the laws on dangerous driving being used in place of the laws on speeding, to secure a higher sentence.
Happens with all offences. Assault occasioning ABH is also a common assault, so you go for the charge with the highest chance of conviction. The purpose is to make the punishment on conviction appropriate. Speeding at over twice the limit on a busy public road should not be treated the same as doing 90mph in a 70mph limit because the danger to other road users is exponentially greater, so you go for the higher charge.and one is the laws on dangerous driving being used in place of the laws on speeding, to secure a higher sentence.
However, all of this has bugger all to do with the police - it's the CPS that prosecutes the charge, and the jury/magistrate that decides whether the offence has been committed, and hands out the sentence. The police don't "twist" anything - they catch the suspect, gather the evidence and present that to the CPS.
If you want to have a pop at the police, have a go at GMP for their shameful response to the Rochdale child abuse; don't have a go at Surrey Police for doing their job as they are required and expected to do.
james7 said:
ging84 said:
My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving
there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
I found this in 30 seconds. Dont know any more about it though. there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
" Unfortunately, the careful and competent driver does not engage in pursuits, he does not contravene traffic signs and speed limits. Yes, a police officer has exemptions under road traffic legislation but there is no exemption from dangerous driving.
If there are no legal exemptions permitting dangerous driving by a police officer during a pursuit, what distinguishes a police pursuit driver from the subject he is pursuing? The obvious answer is his training and his skill. Unfortunately, since the case of R v Bannister, a jury is not permitted to take into account an officer’s special skill and training in determining whether the driving was dangerous only against the standard of the careful and competent driver."
It came from http://www.policemag.co.uk/editions/397.aspx
So it seems they are not exempt according to that.
For instance
There will be variations in circumstances where speeds could be identical
e.g. you approaching traffic ahead without warning equipment, them with.
e.g. where you did your highest speed it was dangerous to do that speed & they didn't match that speed there. They went faster than you later where it was safer for them to make ground.
In charges there is also a public interest test.
e.g. That may result in you being charged where they wouldn't be, because it's judged in the public interest to charge you, but not them.
In the case you quoted an extract from (R v Holden) he was acquitted by the jury of dangerous driving whilst following another driver who was convicted of it.
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 13th March 16:41
LoonR1 said:
That "arbitrary number" is the law of the land and that's the nub of it.
Moreover it forms the basis for every driver's expectations when they set off every day. If everyone knew the limits didn't exist on a given road, i.e. it became part of their education when learning to drive, they would at least be aware that these roads exist, as drivers in Germany are with the unrestricted parts of the autobahn. More importantly armed with this knowledge they could avoid these roads. No one in the UK is going to expect much less react well to someone doing 150mph in their vicinity.
You can't just say "it works in Germany so it must be ok here too" I don't think.
Edited by Durzel on Friday 13th March 18:45
Durzel said:
Moreover it forms the basis for every driver's expectations when they set off every day.
If everyone knew the limits didn't exist on a given road, i.e. it became part of their education when learning to drive, they would at least be aware that these roads exist, as drivers in Germany are with the unrestricted parts of the autobahn.
You can't just say "it works in Germany so it must be ok here too" I don't think.
I made the same point a bit later. If everyone knew the limits didn't exist on a given road, i.e. it became part of their education when learning to drive, they would at least be aware that these roads exist, as drivers in Germany are with the unrestricted parts of the autobahn.
You can't just say "it works in Germany so it must be ok here too" I don't think.
LoonR1 said:
ging84 said:
My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving
there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
You may claim that was your point but it wasn't. You were trying to be clever and explicitly asked if the police were to face charges too. Whatever you were implying wasn't as clear. there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
Have a look at the definition of Dangerous driving and see if this would meet that criteria at first look. I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.
Durzel said:
ging84 said:
My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving
there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
You could easily argue the speed alone is dangerous when it's on a road occupied by other people doing ~70, simply because of the disparity in speed. there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
Is 150mph dangerous on a closed off M25? Probably not in a suitable car. Is it dangerous when other people are just bimbling along doing their commute and not expecting someone to be closing on them at twice their speed? Most people would argue yes.
Time and a place for everything, and this was neither.
robinessex said:
LoonR1 said:
ging84 said:
My point is not that the police should have been arrested, but forces should stop automatically charging high speeds with dangerous driving
there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
You may claim that was your point but it wasn't. You were trying to be clever and explicitly asked if the police were to face charges too. Whatever you were implying wasn't as clear. there are very clear laws on speeding, with maximum sentences, but this no longer seems enough for some forces, so people get charged with dangerous driving on speed alone.
It is an outrageous practice, if they feel the maximum sentence for speeding is too lenient, they should lobby for a change in the law, not twist the existing laws.
Have a look at the definition of Dangerous driving and see if this would meet that criteria at first look. I'd say driving at more than double the maximum permissible speed on the road falls significantly below the standard expected of a reasonable driver.
Of course, you don't want to understand that definition, you want dangerous to mean what you want it to mean, rather than it's legal meaning in this precise sense.
Edited by LoonR1 on Friday 13th March 20:22
robinessex said:
Don't bother going to Germany, and maxing out anything fast then. It's dangereous you know!!!
Are you a bit special? He's doing 150mph in the dark on one of the busiest roads in the country, on a Friday evening when people are tired, on their way home from work, possibly not concentrating as hard as they should be - certainly not expecting some knobhead to be doing well over double the limit behind them - and you're wibbling about the autobahn.Phatboy317 said:
Dunno, I've been passed by cars doing well in excess of 100mph on numerous occasions, and I've always seen them coming from a long way off.
Maybe I'm just different.
Yes, you're a self confessed driving God. Would A normal member of the public see this though? Would they be expected to? Maybe I'm just different.
LoonR1 said:
Phatboy317 said:
Dunno, I've been passed by cars doing well in excess of 100mph on numerous occasions, and I've always seen them coming from a long way off.
Maybe I'm just different.
Yes, you're a self confessed driving God. Would A normal member of the public see this though? Would they be expected to? Maybe I'm just different.
Perhaps people expect them more than you might think.
TankRizzo said:
robinessex said:
Don't bother going to Germany, and maxing out anything fast then. It's dangereous you know!!!
Are you a bit special? He's doing 150mph in the dark on one of the busiest roads in the country, on a Friday evening when people are tired, on their way home from work, possibly not concentrating as hard as they should be - certainly not expecting some knobhead to be doing well over double the limit behind them - and you're wibbling about the autobahn.Phatboy317 said:
Well, if I've encountered more than a few of them, then so have lots of other regular motorway users.
Perhaps people expect them more than you might think.
And here we go again. This discussion has been had many, many times. I doubt very much that many drivers have seen many other drivers doing much over 100 and I reckon in 30 years of driving that I've never seen anyone doing 150 on the motorway. I doubt many people have. Perhaps people expect them more than you might think.
Makes no difference, it wouldn't be a defence if charged.
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