Front wheel came off hub after recent tyre change
Discussion
I will spare my usual cynicism and listing the many reasons i think the story seems unlikely, except that the OP's been dead for over 40 years.
Cash job, for labour only with no receipt your basically screwed.
The garage has a very definite responsibility to tighten the wheel nuts up correctly, no amount of signs on walls, or pieces of paper signed gets around this.
And considering in general, if a wheel nut has been done up correctly, it stays done up correctly, they would need to prove there was a chance they could have done them up properly, but they came loose, i know that can happen with wheels that have been painted, but not many other circumstances.
It is by no means normal for a garage to expect you to check your wheel nuts, if it was, they'd be expected to ask you to come back so they can recheck, rather than leave it to the motorist, who isn't a mechanic, and in all lightly hood doesn't have a torque wrench, or a clue how tight they should be.
And as someone who's forgotten to give a full torque up, on a lot of wheels on a lot of cars over the years, i know they have to be more than a little it lose to really risk losing a wheel
Cash job, for labour only with no receipt your basically screwed.
The garage has a very definite responsibility to tighten the wheel nuts up correctly, no amount of signs on walls, or pieces of paper signed gets around this.
And considering in general, if a wheel nut has been done up correctly, it stays done up correctly, they would need to prove there was a chance they could have done them up properly, but they came loose, i know that can happen with wheels that have been painted, but not many other circumstances.
It is by no means normal for a garage to expect you to check your wheel nuts, if it was, they'd be expected to ask you to come back so they can recheck, rather than leave it to the motorist, who isn't a mechanic, and in all lightly hood doesn't have a torque wrench, or a clue how tight they should be.
And as someone who's forgotten to give a full torque up, on a lot of wheels on a lot of cars over the years, i know they have to be more than a little it lose to really risk losing a wheel
I lost a front wheel on a van on the M62 near Leeds in the roadworks that were there for the managed motorway about 5 years ago. The wheel was buggered after it careered off up the hard shoulder and hit a bridge and I flatspotted a brake disc 
The bits were long gone and I had to use one off each of the other tyres to put the spare on.
Wheels do come loose no matter how tightly you think you've tightened the nuts, although I'm a mechanical muppet so quite possible I didn't tighten them enough. I also ignored the early noises and thought the engine was about to explode.
The bits were long gone and I had to use one off each of the other tyres to put the spare on.
Wheels do come loose no matter how tightly you think you've tightened the nuts, although I'm a mechanical muppet so quite possible I didn't tighten them enough. I also ignored the early noises and thought the engine was about to explode.
LoonR1 said:
I lost a front wheel on a van on the M62 near Leeds in the roadworks that were there for the managed motorway about 5 years ago. The wheel was buggered after it careered off up the hard shoulder and hit a bridge and I flatspotted a brake disc
The bits were long gone and I had to use one off each of the other tyres to put the spare on.
Wheels do come loose no matter how tightly you think you've tightened the nuts, although I'm a mechanical muppet so quite possible I didn't tighten them enough. I also ignored the early noises and thought the engine was about to explode.
I lost a nut after about 30 miles after a suspension change. That focused my attention to detail when removing and replacing wheels.The bits were long gone and I had to use one off each of the other tyres to put the spare on.
Wheels do come loose no matter how tightly you think you've tightened the nuts, although I'm a mechanical muppet so quite possible I didn't tighten them enough. I also ignored the early noises and thought the engine was about to explode.
JimClark49 said:
...but as I said in 12 or so years of driving I have never checked tightness and never had a problem.
...Correctly tightened nuts do not just become loose like that.
Umm...yes, they do. In 45 years of driving, it's only happened to me once - after I replaced the front pads and torqued the wheel bolts up; twenty miles up the road and I felt the vibration through the steering. All five bolts were loose....Correctly tightened nuts do not just become loose like that.
I would put it in the category of 'Extremely unlikely, but possible'.
btcc123 said:
In 38 years of driving my wheel bolts have always been done up tight and stayed that way.
One positive if your wheel comes off you can rightly sing the song "Three Wheels on My Wagon"
I've heard that song unfortunately the scenario was someones errant truck wheel (not mine) went straight through another truck drivers windscreen breaking his legs whilst trapping him in the cab, errant wheels especially off trucks can bounce and roll for miles, ATS used to tie a card to the steering wheel so you couldn't avoid the wheelnut check/retighten.One positive if your wheel comes off you can rightly sing the song "Three Wheels on My Wagon"
clarkmagpie said:
Simply not true.
Why do you say that? Sounds nonsense to me. I've run race cars for years and have never ever had correctly torqued up wheel nuts come loose. I've never had to retorque big end and main bearing bolts after rebuilding an engine 'just in case' either..
andygo said:
clarkmagpie said:
Simply not true.
Why do you say that? Sounds nonsense to me. I've run race cars for years and have never ever had correctly torqued up wheel nuts come loose. I've never had to retorque big end and main bearing bolts after rebuilding an engine 'just in case' either..
bigandclever said:
I'm pretty sure that every time I've had wheels off at a garage they've made it very clear it's my responsibility to check everything's OK after a short distance.
It's always struck me as odd that tyre places make a big fuss about re-checking the tightness but I can't recall it EVER being mentioned in a normal garage.M
It's one of those things that seems simple but is incredibly complex.
LoonR1 said:
Wheels do come loose no matter how tightly you think you've tightened tUhe nuts, although I'm a mechanical muppet so quite possible I didn't tighten them enough.
Doing them up too tight is almost as bad as the bolt or stud will stretch and then become loose as it relaxes.It's one of those things that seems simple but is incredibly complex.
Sheepshanks said:
Doing them up too tight is almost as bad as the bolt or stud will stretch and then become loose as it relaxes.
It's one of those things that seems simple but is incredibly complex.
Make certain that tyre place KNOWS the correct torque for your car. I've had one place tell me that on mine it was 120lb-ft, when the handbook stated 120NM.It's one of those things that seems simple but is incredibly complex.
Sump said:
That is why you go back and ask them to check the torque once more...they welcome you back for this very reason.
Are you an arm chair solicitor?
Are you an arm chair solicitor?
I've never heard of the phrase " armchair solicitor" before but if you are asking whether I'm a qualified litigation lawyer, the answer is yes. Do I deal with civil litigation every day? Yes. Do I know what I'm talking about? Yes.
Was this advice? No. Was it observation and opinion? Yes
Was it more informed than most, including yours? Yes.
Wind your neck in.
And for all of the receipt junkies out there, you don't need a piece of paper to create a contract. They can be created orally and by the parties' actions. Unless the garage denies it did the work of course.
What's that saying about leading a horse to water? I just remembered why I don't do forums.
I had this once in my 911.
I'd had some work done which involved removing and re-fitting the front wheels, at a Porsche Indy.
On the way home, I had got about 15 miles from the garage, and let's just say I was pressing on, enjoying the car
when there was an almighty bang from underneath the car. I felt the bang through the floorpan itself 
When I stopped and got out, one of the front wheel bolts had come out. It had removed a huge chunk from the rim of the alloy wheel, bounced underneath the car, and then bounced back up from the road into the floorpan.
There was a mahoosive dent in the floorpan, and when I lifted the carpet inside, there was a monster 'dome' of bent metal. When I checked the other four bolts, they were also all loose Luckily I had a wheel brace, so I tightened them up and drove home gingerly on four studs.
Called them and they didn't want to know. They basically called me a liar. I just let it go, couldn't be arsed to enter into a huge fight when it was one persons word against another.
I'd had some work done which involved removing and re-fitting the front wheels, at a Porsche Indy.
On the way home, I had got about 15 miles from the garage, and let's just say I was pressing on, enjoying the car
when there was an almighty bang from underneath the car. I felt the bang through the floorpan itself When I stopped and got out, one of the front wheel bolts had come out. It had removed a huge chunk from the rim of the alloy wheel, bounced underneath the car, and then bounced back up from the road into the floorpan.
There was a mahoosive dent in the floorpan, and when I lifted the carpet inside, there was a monster 'dome' of bent metal. When I checked the other four bolts, they were also all loose
Luckily I had a wheel brace, so I tightened them up and drove home gingerly on four studs.Called them and they didn't want to know. They basically called me a liar. I just let it go, couldn't be arsed to enter into a huge fight when it was one persons word against another.
mechagran said:
Sump said:
That is why you go back and ask them to check the torque once more...they welcome you back for this very reason.
Are you an arm chair solicitor?
Are you an arm chair solicitor?
I've never heard of the phrase " armchair solicitor" before but if you are asking whether I'm a qualified litigation lawyer, the answer is yes.
Asking flippant questions about peoples jobs is bound to make you look silly at some point.The OP has no receipt but if the workshop does reply by email as he has requested then that ties them to the job reasonably well (unless they reply to say they have no record of the job….), so he may be Ok in proving the contract exists.
He hadn't yet reached the necessary mileage at which bolts may be re-checked, I'm not sold that any judge would allow that kind of a get-out but either way it shouldn't be an issue in this case.
The question of interference after the car left the workshop could be raised, that would become a consideration of whether it is really likely that someone happened to loosen his nuts in the 48 hours following him having wheels removed - it's unlikely to go in the workshops favour. Remember that this isn't a criminal case, proof does not have to be beyond all reasonable doubt.
However
He hadn't yet reached the necessary mileage at which bolts may be re-checked, I'm not sold that any judge would allow that kind of a get-out but either way it shouldn't be an issue in this case.
The question of interference after the car left the workshop could be raised, that would become a consideration of whether it is really likely that someone happened to loosen his nuts in the 48 hours following him having wheels removed - it's unlikely to go in the workshops favour. Remember that this isn't a criminal case, proof does not have to be beyond all reasonable doubt.
However
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Called them and they didn't want to know. They basically called me a liar. I just let it go, couldn't be arsed to enter into a huge fight when it was one persons word against another.
Ultimately this is the biggest issue. Assuming that the workshop doesn't just roll over and pay in the first instance the OP has to decide if it is worth going through the process and argument over what actually happened.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff