Front wheel came off hub after recent tyre change

[Zoobeef]

This happened to a guy at work. He phoned the garage and they quite happily chanted out the line that you are supposed to check them after 50 miles so it's not their problem.
He then said he had only done 15, they are now fixing it all FOC.

[andygo]

Sump said:

Are you one of those self proclaimed "engineers" or something ?

Not really relevant what I am TBH, but methinks you are clearly one of those self proclaimed "muppets'. I'll tune it to the comedy channel later and enjoy your performance. In the meantime, give my regards to Kermit.

[V8LM]

xjsdriver said:

LoonR1 said:

The nuts were on the floor right where you stopped?

All FIVE nuts? After 20 miles? Is this a wind up??? No pun intended!!!

With your luck OP you should do the lottery. Chances of all five coming off and landing within sight of where you stopped after 20 miles of driving is pretty small.

[SVTRick]

Not difficult to check your nuts, even a one handed person can do that.

[BertBert]

clarkmagpie said:

Simply not true.

Yes it is.

[selym]

BertBert said:

Yes it is.

No it's not.

[Mave]

ging84 said:

And as someone who's forgotten to give a full torque up, on a lot of wheels on a lot of cars over the years, i know they have to be more than a little it lose to really risk losing a wheel
wheel

Inadequate tightening torque is one reason for losing a bolt, another as mentioned earlier is the joint not being seated properly. It's not unknown for a joint to be fully torqued up but badly seated, then loosen off under a bit of vibration or heat.

[BertBert]

Mave said:

It's not unknown for a joint to be fully torqued up but badly seated, then loosen off under a bit of vibration or heat.

What does that mean in this context? A "badly seated joint"?

[Bigends]

My local tyre place guns the wheel nuts up then checks with torque wrench. Looks like someone at the ops garage forgot to check. Most wheel bolts will centre the wheel as they are tightened so being properly seated shouldnt be a problem. If the nuts/bolts had been only finger tight the car would have driven away with an obvious wobbly wheel which wouldnt have lasted five minutes. Seem like they must have been merely 'nipped up' by hand then left and not checked. Invoices by my tyre place recommend tightness checking after a set mileage (dont remember what it is off hand) - they do it for free.

[Mave]

BertBert said:

What does that mean in this context? A "badly seated joint"?

Something which means that the joint isn't reacted as intended. A bit of dirt or corrosion on the mating surfaces or spigot. Flange geometry allowing a spigot to snag rather than sit down pproperly.

[PhillipM]

Mave said:

Something which means that the joint isn't reacted as intended. A bit of dirt or corrosion on the mating surfaces or spigot. Flange geometry allowing a spigot to snag rather than sit down pproperly.

Or refurbished wheels with thick, soft paint under the nut seating surface. That softens even more as they warm up.

[Bigends]

PhillipM said:

Mave said:

Something which means that the joint isn't reacted as intended. A bit of dirt or corrosion on the mating surfaces or spigot. Flange geometry allowing a spigot to snag rather than sit down pproperly.

Or refurbished wheels with thick, soft paint under the nut seating surface. That softens even more as they warm up.

Wouldnt cranking the bolts up to 110nm plus. bite through the coating?

[PhillipM]

Bigends said:

Wouldnt cranking the bolts up to 110nm plus. bite through the coating?

Tends to just turn it to a nice lubricating film under the seating area.

[Bigends]

PhillipM said:

Bigends said:

Wouldnt cranking the bolts up to 110nm plus. bite through the coating?

Tends to just turn it to a nice lubricating film under the seating area.

But they would achieve the required torque? Wouldnt the coating just squeeze out from under the bolt?

[Mave]

Bigends said:

But they would achieve the required torque? Wouldnt the coating just squeeze out from under the bolt?

Not necessarily fully and consistently.

[grimmac]

How many people actually go back to the place that refitted their wheels and get them to re-torque them??

I've never done it... Not in my personal car or been required to do it in a commercial 7.5t or a supermarket home delivery sprinter.

I've also never been asked by a VW main dealer to return for a re-torque after brake pads / suspension work.

To me, if a wheel comes off after 20 miles it was never put on correctly. If you are within the mileage that the tyre place stipulate before re-torquing then there's no question in my mind.

Getting the money out of them willingly may well be a different story...

[Mave]

grimmac said:

How many people actually go back to the place that refitted their wheels and get them to re-torque them??

I've never done it... Not in my personal car or been required to do it in a commercial 7.5t or a supermarket home delivery sprinter.
.

Bit surprised about the 7.5t - isn't that why commercial vehicles have arrows on their nuts? To quickly see if they've moved?

[grimmac]

Mave said:

Bit surprised about the 7.5t - isn't that why commercial vehicles have arrows on their nuts? To quickly see if they've moved?

TBF my time in 7.5's was nearly 10 years ago, they did get the yellow arrows just before I left.. Daily visual inspectyion was done... But never was required to go for a retorque.

Same for the sprinter, daily visual inspection, and a plastic toothed cage that goes over the nuts.. But never sent back to tyre fitter, despite tag being given back with vehicle recommending retorque in x miles.

[Mave]

grimmac said:

TBF my time in 7.5's was nearly 10 years ago, they did get the yellow arrows just before I left.. Daily visual inspectyion was done... But never was required to go for a retorque.

Same for the sprinter, daily visual inspection, and a plastic toothed cage that goes over the nuts.. But never sent back to tyre fitter, despite tag being given back with vehicle recommending retorque in x miles.

Ok, but the fact you've got arrows and cages on your nuts means that loosening of nuts is a recognised problem. Whether you spot it through arrows moving or through retorquing, the intent is the same.

[richard sails]

There is another way this can happen, it is possible to severely overtighten a bolt (or nut on a stud) and stretch it beyond its elastic limit. Future use of the bolt or stud will be compromised, when the stud/bolt is tightened to the original (and correct) setting the bolt does not have the elastic stretch that is should have and clamping forces are greatly reduced. This can result in the bolts becoming loose quite quickly when subjected to vibration.

How do I know this, it happened to me. I had a new (second-hand old) car, I changed two wheels, one came loose within about ten miles, I stopped and re-tightened and double checked the bolts. It happened again after about another ten miles, I then realised something was seriously wrong and carefully took the car home checking the bolts every few miles and yes they were loosening off quite quickly. As I work in engineering I checked my torque wrench calibration and it was spot on. Then I did a bit of digging for information about nuts, bolts and thread performance and I was surprised to see just how much is known about the performance of nut and bolt joints and found out all about elastic limits and clamping forces and how these are important for a good bolting solution.

If a threaded joint has never been over-tightened and is always correctly torqued then all should be well, HOWEVER if the threaded section has been severely over tightened at some time in the past then there is a risk of the joint becoming loose due to vibration. Hence all road wheel bolts/nuts should be rechecked unless you know the history.

The fix for me was to swap the bolts and bin the stretched ones.