My son has been scammed
Discussion
KFC said:
There is some irony in you going on about Jackanory!!
If he's done it to several people then there would clearly be evidence of it being fraud. It just might be hard for anyone else to join the dots, unless the scammer has been particularly stupid. (using same email addresses or phone numbers which turn up in Google searches)
As it goes, the one I exampled only did it once. But there was plenty of evidence in the form of emails etc. it can, and is done.If he's done it to several people then there would clearly be evidence of it being fraud. It just might be hard for anyone else to join the dots, unless the scammer has been particularly stupid. (using same email addresses or phone numbers which turn up in Google searches)
KFC said:
oblio said:
It's a shame for the lad: he's a good kid, only 17 and a bit naïve, but has now lost his savings 
If he's not very bright then perhaps it would be in everyones interests for parental control of his finances to be in place to save grief like this in the first place?
t ....Mark-C said:
KFC you really are a tt ....
Its a fair point though, the parent(s) should have been in control of his finances if he didn't have the brain power to tell that was a scam. You can chalk it up to intelligence, naivety, or anything else you like but it doesn't change the end result of the kid wasn't capable of managing his own money. t ....Its not exactly a disaster is it, £350 is annoying but he's presumably learned a lesson at least.
KFC said:
Its a fair point though, the parent(s) should have been in control of his finances if he didn't have the brain power to tell that was a scam. You can chalk it up to intelligence, naivety, or anything else you like but it doesn't change the end result of the kid wasn't capable of managing his own money.
Its not exactly a disaster is it, £350 is annoying but he's presumably learned a lesson at least.
Just out of interest, what do you get out of it? I mean posting pointlessly insulting stuff at strangers over the internet. Genuine question.Its not exactly a disaster is it, £350 is annoying but he's presumably learned a lesson at least.
oblio said:
Short of just taking it as a 'life lesson'...is there anything else that can be done to try and recoup his money?
Cheers
Yes. In this sort of situation it's all too easy for everyone to jump straight to fraud etc, but what's really happened here is: bloke advertises iPhones; kid pays for iPhones; kid doesn't get iPhones. It's a sale of goods problem, like if you walked into the Apple store, paid, then they didn't give you the goods: you wouldn't sue them for fraud. Cheers
S27 SoGA: seller's duty to deliver the goods. No delivery means breach of the contract. Best remedy is damages for non-delivery (S51 SoGA).
Small claims action, represent yourself, get damages and costs back. Obviously going to court is daunting, particularly bearing in mind it is 'only' £350, but it's an option. Unlikely to be defended and, if you get an order for damages, your options for enforcing and getting the money back then open up.
That said, everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure he'll be a much more careful buyer in the future, so definitely a solid lesson. Good to see him out trying to make money for himself too (hopefully to fund a decent car - sorry, had to say something PH!)
Twin1 said:
Yes. In this sort of situation it's all too easy for everyone to jump straight to fraud etc, but what's really happened here is: bloke advertises iPhones; kid pays for iPhones; kid doesn't get iPhones. It's a sale of goods problem, like if you walked into the Apple store, paid, then they didn't give you the goods: you wouldn't sue them for fraud.
Apples and oranges.You can't compare walking into an Apple store and paying for something, to being scammed on gumtree or wherever else for a phone at a ridiculously low price. Apple gadgets are basically as good as cash, you can turn them into real paper money instantly in any city. So there is no legitimate reason to sell one online to someone you don't know, for a fraction of the value. If that has happened then the starting point of what to do next needs to be from the assumption of 'that was a scam'
KFC said:
Apples and oranges.
You can't compare walking into an Apple store and paying for something, to being scammed on gumtree or wherever else for a phone at a ridiculously low price. Apple gadgets are basically as good as cash, you can turn them into real paper money instantly in any city. So there is no legitimate reason to sell one online to someone you don't know, for a fraction of the value. If that has happened then the starting point of what to do next needs to be from the assumption of 'that was a scam'
That may be true. The 'seller' may be the next Hitler, but proving fraud in this sort of circumstance is difficult: you need to show that he deliberately deceived the 'buyer'. Who wants to do that when proving non-delivery is so simple? You can't compare walking into an Apple store and paying for something, to being scammed on gumtree or wherever else for a phone at a ridiculously low price. Apple gadgets are basically as good as cash, you can turn them into real paper money instantly in any city. So there is no legitimate reason to sell one online to someone you don't know, for a fraction of the value. If that has happened then the starting point of what to do next needs to be from the assumption of 'that was a scam'
There may be other reasons for wanting to get the police involved: having him shown to be a criminal etc. but if you're concerned about getting the money back, that's the easiest option IMO.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Terminator X said:
Amazing how the police generally don't give a fk about this sort of thing, no wonder it simply goes on and on.
TX.
What figures are you using to back this up?k about this sort of thing, no wonder it simply goes on and on.TX.
Daily Fail but ...
TX.
Twin1 said:
That may be true. The 'seller' may be the next Hitler, but proving fraud in this sort of circumstance is difficult: you need to show that he deliberately deceived the 'buyer'. Who wants to do that when proving non-delivery is so simple?
Barring the seller appearing and saying he got hit by a bus and was in a coma, haven't we already established 'scam' to an acceptable level. The seller offered an items at a ridiculous price; then he vanished and went unresponsive once he pocketed the cash.Terminator X said:
Link doesn't seem to work but I note two things...1) Dally mail link anyway, so value is nill.
2) Link appears to be about AF, not the police.
KFC said:
Barring the seller appearing and saying he got hit by a bus and was in a coma, haven't we already established 'scam' to an acceptable level. The seller offered an items at a ridiculous price; then he vanished and went unresponsive once he pocketed the cash.
You make far too many assumptions. Price: may seem low, but to a business being wound up that might be fair. Vanishing/unresponsive: well, we've all forgotten to reply to an email before. We all know how this actually is, but when you're trying to prove it, it's a little more tricky than you think. Don't misunderstand me and think I'm on the seller's side, I'm not. But for OP's son getting his money back it's much easier (read "cheaper") to go down the SoGA route, because that can be shown simply from the facts on this thread: price has been paid, no goods received.
Mk3Spitfire said:
Terminator X said:
Link doesn't seem to work but I note two things...1) Dally mail link anyway, so value is nill.
2) Link appears to be about AF, not the police.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Works fine for me. Don't they pass it on to the police? Stories of various fail just so you know.
TX.
Strange, it's working when it's quoted but wasn't from the OP. TX.
Anyway, no. AF collate information, and if there's sufficient, they may pass it on to police. But they are not run/managed by police, and jobs are not automatically sent back to the police.
KFC said:
Its a fair point though, the parent(s) should have been in control of his finances if he didn't have the brain power to tell that was a scam. You can chalk it up to intelligence, naivety, or anything else you like but it doesn't change the end result of the kid wasn't capable of managing his own money.
Its not exactly a disaster is it, £350 is annoying but he's presumably learned a lesson at least.
It's far less about being able to manage to manage money than learning to be wise to the ways of devious and unscrupulous sellers. A great many 17 year olds have comparatively little life experience. A lot of posters forget that they too were once wet behind the ears. Its not exactly a disaster is it, £350 is annoying but he's presumably learned a lesson at least.
Twin1 said:
You make far too many assumptions. Price: may seem low, but to a business being wound up that might be fair.
Scenario: your own company is being wound up; you need to get rid of half a dozen iPhones at 40% off retail price and you need them all gone this week.Do you need to sell them to strangers online? I certainly wouldn't, and I can't imagine many others would either!
a couple of years ago I was up at 1am, phone pinged, I'd bought something on ebay then again and agin, about £600 worth , account hacked
PS3 and a couple of other things, logged into my paypal and ebay accounts and changed the passwords then it stopped.
Contacted paypal all refunded within a week.
My ebay delivery address had been altered to an address in florida , street viewed it and it looked like offices
At 2am I contact the local sherif in Florida , when I wake next morning I have a reply , by 5pm an update from a detective, they've been round to the address which is a PO box address ,siezed goods and shut it down
All in less than 24 hours on the strength of an email
PS3 and a couple of other things, logged into my paypal and ebay accounts and changed the passwords then it stopped.
Contacted paypal all refunded within a week.
My ebay delivery address had been altered to an address in florida , street viewed it and it looked like offices
At 2am I contact the local sherif in Florida , when I wake next morning I have a reply , by 5pm an update from a detective, they've been round to the address which is a PO box address ,siezed goods and shut it down
All in less than 24 hours on the strength of an email
Edited by wack on Wednesday 18th March 20:02
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